WEBVTT 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:39.520 Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:40.720 I am Corey J. 00:00:40.720 --> 00:00:41.840 Mahler. And 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:43.920 I'm still Woe. 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:49.040 On today's Stone Choir, we're going to be discussing ecumenism in the 00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:53.040 trenches. We're going to do an episode today that as we were 00:00:53.040 --> 00:00:56.000 doing the prep for it, Corey and I have a number of 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.720 things that we want to say, a bunch of comments that we 00:00:58.720 --> 00:01:01.920 want to make about this area, but we couldn't really find the 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.240 skeleton holding it all together. 00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:06.400 So I just want to acknowledge up front that by the end 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.360 of this, we're not going to have some five-point plan for how 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:12.160 to fix all the problems that we're going to talk about today. 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:15.760 But what we want to do is lay out some of the 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:21.760 principles that all Christians should be carrying in our lives, including in 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.880 the portion of our Christian lives that are in our churches. 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:28.640 And we're going to talk some about the division there, you know, 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.680 between the left hand and the right hand kingdom of God, where 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.520 there are church things and then there are political things, there are 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:36.400 life things. 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:38.640 And to some extent, those are separate. 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:41.440 And we're going to talk about some of the circumstances that we're 00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:42.560 facing today. 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:46.400 And we see them online, but although it's virtual, it's always symptomatic 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:50.080 of what's actually in people's hearts and what's really going on in 00:01:50.080 --> 00:01:50.880 the world. 00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:53.520 So there'll be a number of places where we give examples of 00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:56.720 things that have happened on Twitter and some examples are specific to 00:01:56.720 --> 00:01:59.200 us. None of it is about internet drama. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.440 I don't want anyone to take that away from this. 00:02:01.440 --> 00:02:06.160 They're just simply examples of what is commonly believed among people. 00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:09.200 The reason that we're going to tackle the some of the questions 00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:14.160 we are addressing today is that although we can't give you a 00:02:14.160 --> 00:02:18.560 roadmap for here's exactly how this thing is structured that we're concerned 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.840 about, what we are already seeing, what we've seen in the last 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:26.080 few years, a number of you who are listeners, we and a 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:30.560 number of you who are listeners will be facing attacks in ways 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.400 that are gonna be addressed today. 00:02:32.720 --> 00:02:36.960 Where you're told in your church or you're told by pastors, here's 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:38.560 what you can't say in the world. 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:41.120 And so we want to address the fact, even though we can't 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.320 necessarily give you like here's a dissertation on how to view all 00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:50.560 of this, there's specific things we can very clearly today draw lines 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:55.520 around and say this is impermissible behavior, this is necessary behavior, and 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:57.200 then these are matters of wisdom. 00:02:57.200 --> 00:03:00.160 That's kind of the gist of the Christian life. 00:03:00.160 --> 00:03:02.960 And And as we've said in past episodes, I think one of 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.000 the things that we as Christian men need to get away from 00:03:06.320 --> 00:03:09.760 is the impulse for that everyone has, well, you need to show 00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:11.040 me a Bible verse. 00:03:11.040 --> 00:03:14.400 Because you don't find that in the Bible where God says you 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.800 have to find a Bible verse to give you permission to do 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:20.320 anything and absent that you can't do it, or if there's no 00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:23.040 Bible verse condemning it, you're free to do whatever you want. 00:03:23.040 --> 00:03:27.680 Scripture is not a blank check and it's also not an explicit 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.080 rule book of everything that's permissible. 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:33.040 There are things that you can think that Scripture has nothing to 00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:33.760 say about. 00:03:33.760 --> 00:03:37.120 You can think about things that are not contemplated in Scripture. 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.600 Scripture will dictate the moral law. 00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:42.240 Absolutely. That is the only place we are going to find the 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.160 absolute moral law that governs the actions of men. 00:03:46.160 --> 00:03:46.480 And 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:51.120 one of the reasons that Stone Choir exists is that we've discussed 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:55.280 in many past episodes, the problem that we are all facing today, 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.000 the reason that the podcast exists, the reason a lot of you 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:04.320 listen, is that as the new global religion is infusing itself into 00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:07.840 our churches, what we're finding is that the morality that has been 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:12.160 held by Christians for thousands of years from scripture, from God, is 00:04:12.160 --> 00:04:17.040 being replaced either piecemeal or wholesale by a completely different morality from 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.440 the world that no one's ever held before. 00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:24.480 And so suddenly right and wrong becomes a temporal matter, where people 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:27.760 will say, Yeah, this thing became a sin in nineteen forty five. 00:04:27.760 --> 00:04:31.680 This thing became a sin in eighteen sixty one And anyone who 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.480 did it before then, either well, they just didn't know any better 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:38.160 and God changed, or everyone else is burning in hell. 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.520 They all believe the very thing that we believe today, and they're 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:44.880 wicked, and only the people who believe the things since the end 00:04:44.880 --> 00:04:47.760 of the Second World War, those are the only Christians, and everyone 00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:48.800 else is evil. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:50.080 That's not how God works. 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:52.400 That's not how morality works from God. 00:04:52.400 --> 00:04:54.720 If it's from God, it's eternal. 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.440 And so when we see shifting sands in the moral space, that 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:02.320 is when Christians have to perk up and say, wait a minute, 00:05:02.320 --> 00:05:04.960 where am I actually getting my morality from? 00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:07.120 Because God doesn't change. 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.240 And if right and wrong are changing, and my And my ancestors 00:05:10.320 --> 00:05:13.840 who I know were Christian are suddenly guilty of sins that they 00:05:13.840 --> 00:05:15.760 had never been spoken of yet. 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:16.880 Something's bad. 00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:18.000 Something's wrong. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.120 Either I've been lied to and all my ancestors are burning in 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.880 hell for believing what I believe, or I'm being lied to now 00:05:24.880 --> 00:05:27.520 by these people who are saying, here's a new morality, here's a 00:05:27.520 --> 00:05:29.840 new way to do things. 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:30.160 So 00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:35.600 the struggle that we have today in the church, and I want 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:39.280 to re-emphasize something we said a couple episodes ago, there are three 00:05:39.280 --> 00:05:40.560 different types of churches. 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.120 There's the Capital C church that's all believers. 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.600 There's the kind of the second level of churches, which are the 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:51.200 denominations, they have different beliefs, different doctrines about certain things, and then 00:05:51.200 --> 00:05:53.360 have unity around other certain things. 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:55.920 And then you have the individual congregations. 00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.160 And the first one is real, but it's intangible. 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.720 The second one is completely imaginary. 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:04.000 Denominations aren't real. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:04.960 They're corporations. 00:06:04.960 --> 00:06:05.760 They're agreements. 00:06:05.760 --> 00:06:09.440 They're near social agreements, but they're not a tangible thing. 00:06:09.440 --> 00:06:14.080 The local congregation is the tangible place where the Christian church is 00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:17.520 present. And so our Christian lives exist 00:06:18.400 --> 00:06:22.720 in the first spiritually and in the third at the local level 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:26.880 practically. And then the second sort of governs like where's your next 00:06:26.880 --> 00:06:28.240 pastor going to come from? 00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:31.200 If you're on vacation, where do you want to gather with other 00:06:31.200 --> 00:06:33.600 believers? You're going to want to gather with those in the same 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:38.480 denomination because in theory you should have similar beliefs and practices. 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:39.040 And so 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.880 we as Christians, although we have some of those divisions 00:06:43.840 --> 00:06:47.920 at the second level, we have doctrinal disagreements that are very important. 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:52.000 And when we address some of those issues on Stone Choir, we're 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.080 just frank: like Lutherans believe one thing, Roman Catholics believe another, Calvinists 00:06:56.080 --> 00:06:58.560 believe another, Baptists believe another. 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.880 At most one of them is right and everyone else is wrong 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.160 because we're making mutually exclusive claims. 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.440 And then there's other things about the Christian life where we're in 00:07:07.440 --> 00:07:10.320 agreement. Even if it's only at a high level, like I believe 00:07:10.320 --> 00:07:11.600 whatever's in the Word of God. 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.360 And then you know we will disagree sometimes about the details about 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:16.560 what that means. 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.720 The major premise of I believe scripture is a unifying premise that 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:22.640 is shared by all Christians. 00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:25.120 And so when someone comes along and says, Oh, you don't believe 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.920 what's in the Bible, let's do this other thing instead, that is 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.040 a mark that they're outside of the church. 00:07:31.280 --> 00:07:35.200 In our Christian lives, we also exist in the left-hand kingdom. 00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:37.120 We exist in the political. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:38.800 We exist in a community. 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.800 That the community doesn't by definition have anything to do with the 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.160 church. And today that's absolutely the case because our lands have been 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:50.480 paganized. It used to be that, you know, 500 years ago, if 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.920 you lived in a land in Europe, whatever country you lived in, 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:55.760 it was a Christian country. 00:07:55.760 --> 00:08:00.560 It was going to be a particular denomination that was generally politically 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.240 governed, and that was what everyone was expected to adhere to. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.280 And you would assume that all of your neighbors were going to 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:09.040 have the same beliefs as you. 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.720 And any disagreements were not going to be big blow up things 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:16.320 and you you didn't get the opportunity to shop around. 00:08:16.320 --> 00:08:18.400 And as Americans, like, oh, that seems terrible. 00:08:18.400 --> 00:08:20.480 I wanna I wanna just do whatever wanna do. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.800 I want to do what's right in my own eyes. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.520 And while on one hand it's necessary for us to obey our 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:30.080 consciences and not to commit to beliefs or practices that we don't 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.600 believe are in accord with scripture, on the other hand, it's the 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.560 duty of the godly prince to get those things right in his 00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:43.040 lands. When the very first Lutheran foundational document was drafted, the Augsburg 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:47.840 Confession, it was signed not by any pastors or theologians, it was 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:49.200 signed by politicians. 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:53.840 Every single man who signed the Augsburg Confession was a Christian man 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:56.320 outside of the ecclesiastical hierarchy. 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.520 They were effectively governors and mayors in Germany. 00:09:01.520 --> 00:09:05.280 That was who signed the very first document that defines what it 00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:06.960 is to be Lutheran. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.680 And that's kind of mind-blowing today. 00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:12.400 We pretend that's not even the case because we want to pretend 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:18.160 that all theology belongs to a special class of church men who 00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:19.840 do special church stuff. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.360 And so the the overall gist of today's episode of that's simply 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:24.400 not true. 00:09:24.400 --> 00:09:28.080 The doing of the church stuff belongs to every Christian man. 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.320 And that doesn't mean that every man does everything. 00:09:30.400 --> 00:09:31.760 That would be that would be chaos. 00:09:31.760 --> 00:09:32.480 That would be wickedness. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.960 As now we're saying what we want to do today is try 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.400 to lay out that when we see some of these questions that 00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:41.760 we have today where what do I do in my community, what 00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:44.160 do I do in my Christian life? 00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:50.320 It's necessary to recognize that the model doctrinally that we have inherited 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:57.760 from the Reformation era, for those who are, you know, post-Reformation denominations. 00:09:57.760 --> 00:10:00.960 Those beliefs have been inherited from men who were in a fundamentally 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:06.160 different cultural context where all their neighbors were Christian, their governors, their 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:07.680 leaders politically were Christian. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.440 Their laws were Christian. 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:10.880 There was no democracy. 00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:13.440 There was no notion of well, I'm just not gonna do that. 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.520 It was illegal in a lot of places not to go to 00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:18.800 church. Like that's unthinkable to us today. 00:10:18.800 --> 00:10:20.160 It was just the norm. 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:24.160 It was the norm in many places for hundreds and in some 00:10:24.160 --> 00:10:26.000 cases over a thousand years. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.680 That was what Christendom was like when these debates were originally being 00:10:29.680 --> 00:10:34.400 held. And so when we look back from this point today, back 00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:39.680 hundreds of years, we get confused because we don't realize that everything 00:10:39.680 --> 00:10:40.720 was Christian then. 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.280 Whereas today virtually nothing is Christian. 00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:45.840 As we did in last week's episode, talking about some of the 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:50.080 very egregious, very basic doctrinal errors in our churches. 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.160 Even the churches themselves are definitionally not Christian in many cases, at 00:10:54.160 --> 00:10:56.640 least some of the beliefs that are espoused. 00:10:56.640 --> 00:11:00.640 And so we're looking at a very tiny surface area of people 00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:05.120 who actually hold to what is scriptural and want to do what 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.240 God says to do. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.520 And then we're in the world. 00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:10.240 We're in a neighborhood, we're in a community, we're in a nation, 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:14.960 and we want to do what God says, but the methodologies and 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:19.440 the structures that we've inherited from past centuries when the church was 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.480 much more involved aren't working today. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.360 And no one's really been talking about why they don't work. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.480 And so what we're seeing now as Christian Christian men are becoming 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.960 reinvigorated and saying, Hey, wait a minute. 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.920 I'm seeing abject wickedness in the world. 00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:35.120 I object to this. 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:36.320 I want to fight it. 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.720 I see this as a spiritual war. 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:43.040 Rather than our church bodies joining us and going to war against 00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:46.160 wickedness, in many cases, they are saying, hey, wait a minute, leave 00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.560 that alone. 00:11:46.560 --> 00:11:47.600 That's none of your business. 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:48.320 You can't do that. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:49.200 That's political. 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:50.640 You're not allowed to do that. 00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:52.960 And so we're going to talk about today is where we as 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:57.200 Christians must draw the line on what is permissible to be said 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:01.680 to us from within the church is a very delicate thing because 00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:04.400 we're not advocating rebellion. 00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:07.600 Many will accuse us of that because they accuse and accuse and 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.280 accuse because they're satanic. 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:10.960 That's their second nature. 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:13.760 That can't be helped. 00:12:13.760 --> 00:12:17.200 The problem is that there are some cases where it is necessary 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.560 to rebel against, it's always necessary to rebel against false teaching. 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.440 If a man who says I'm a pastor who says I'm from 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.000 God and I'm going to tell you to do something that's not 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.960 scriptural, you must disobey him. 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:32.160 And the fact that there is an office or a title, that 00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:37.840 there's a machinery of denomination behind it, is no excuse for us 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:39.840 doing that which is Christian. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:44.800 That second tier, the denominational bodies, do not define Christianity. 00:12:44.800 --> 00:12:45.920 Scripture does. 00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:49.680 Scripture defines who is in the Capital C church. 00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:52.720 And it's our duty in our local communities to make sure that 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.400 our local congregations remain a part of the Capital C church. 00:12:56.400 --> 00:13:00.880 And if that second layer, those denominations are breaking ranks with scripture, 00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:04.320 they're breaking ranks with history, if they are joining with the new 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.640 global religion against Christian men, that doesn't change the battle that we 00:13:08.640 --> 00:13:12.400 have. But it does mean that a lot of things that we 00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:15.600 may be faced with doing today, they're gonna be challenging. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.920 They're going to be things that require tremendous prayer and consideration and 00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:24.080 wisdom to make sure that we don't sin by rebelling against God, 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.680 even as we're fixing the places where those who claim to speak 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:30.800 in God's name are in fact the ones who are in rebellion. 00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:34.080 And discerning that is a tremendously difficult problem. 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.440 But today it is one of the crucial problems that we as 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.360 Christian men in the West face. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:43.760 That we have these intermediary bodies that are claiming to be from 00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:47.280 God that in some cases are actually denouncing what is in scripture. 00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:51.200 And then they're trying to prevent us from addressing it and from 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.800 living Christian lives in the world, which is our duty to God. 00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:59.280 And we have to discuss that and what we are obligated to 00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:02.960 do so that we don't run afoul of God's word. 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:06.800 God gives us commands about these things and we are duty bound 00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:07.920 to obey him. 00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:09.200 It doesn't save us. 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.840 It's because we are saved that we respond in love and say, 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.440 I'm gonna do what you want, God. 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.920 And so when we go into the world the other six days 00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:19.280 a week, not on Sunday, we have to be Christians on those 00:14:19.280 --> 00:14:20.160 days too. 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:24.400 And living as Christians in those days is going to mean doing 00:14:24.400 --> 00:14:27.760 things that some of our pastors are saying you're not allowed to 00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:28.240 do that. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.880 And so the discussion is, well, there are things that pastors are 00:14:30.880 --> 00:14:32.960 not allowed to do that we are. 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:38.000 And that's something that historically has not been really even relevant. 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:39.840 And today it's vital. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.640 And so as we discussed this today, I just wanted to say 00:14:42.640 --> 00:14:44.720 at the outset, we're not saying be rebellious. 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.000 That's a terrible thing. 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.440 We are saying we need to understand that Christians have a duty 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.000 seven days a week, 24 hours a day. 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.760 And it is a different set of duties than our pastors have. 00:14:55.760 --> 00:14:59.680 The clerical class has a very specific scope of their duties that 00:14:59.680 --> 00:15:01.760 is much more circumscribed than ours. 00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:04.720 And we need to figure out where that clear division is so 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.000 that we are not led astray by those who don't understand what 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:10.960 they are supposed to be doing for God. 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:11.440 So 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:16.800 we may not have a five-step plan in order to address all 00:15:16.800 --> 00:15:19.840 of these problems and so be able to say do this, this, 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.640 this and this, and then everything will be fine. 00:15:22.640 --> 00:15:28.800 However we can make one firm recommendation with regard to where we 00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:32.320 need to start in addressing some of these problems And that is 00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:36.880 that we need to eject a certain term from our vocabularies. 00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:38.400 The word layman 00:15:39.680 --> 00:15:44.080 needs to be eradicated because it is not a thing. 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.160 It is a false category that has been created in order to 00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:53.280 prop up a pastoral class and make them appear as if they 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:57.360 are rulers, as it were, in the church, which is not the 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.400 role of pastor Pastor. 00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:06.560 Now before certain individuals get up in arms, yes, pastors do in 00:16:06.560 --> 00:16:11.680 a certain sense rule in their congregations, but they do so because 00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:16.480 they have been called by the Congregation to serve in a certain 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.400 role, and that of course is the role of pastor. 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:22.240 But what does a pastor do? 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:24.800 What is a pastor? 00:16:24.800 --> 00:16:28.640 Well, fundamentally, and of course this is going to be the Lutheran 00:16:28.640 --> 00:16:32.320 answer, but it is also just the answer from Scripture. 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:38.720 The pastor publicly teaches from the Word of God and administers the 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:43.120 sacraments in the gathered church. 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:47.360 That is fundamentally the duty and role of the pastor. 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:52.080 When a pastor goes beyond that, he is acting outside of what 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.320 it means to be a pastor. 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.520 And this is one of the problems that we see so often 00:16:57.520 --> 00:16:58.320 these days. 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:03.840 We will have pastors on social media or elsewhere, who are relying 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.040 on that authority they have because of the caller, which we'll get 00:17:07.040 --> 00:17:11.280 to the caller, but they're relying on that supposed authority they have 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.640 in order to make pronouncements about things that are totally outside 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.640 the scope of the office of pastor. 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.280 And when they do that, not only are they misleading, they are 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:28.400 actually violating their well, they should be violating the ordination vow, but 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:31.840 perhaps it's not explicitly in there in some cases, but they are 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:36.000 violating the duties given them by God with regard to being a 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:41.440 pastor. Part of the problem is that the office of pastor has 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.680 been conceived of as granting authority. 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:50.080 Now, on the one hand it does so because as I just 00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:54.400 said, the Lutheran stance, and I would assert, as would any Lutheran, 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:58.320 the scriptural stance is that there are certain duties that flow from 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:03.520 the office of pastor, and that does include the privilege of preaching 00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:05.120 in the gathered church. 00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:08.000 That is something that we do not just let anyone say Anyone 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:09.440 stand up and do? 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:14.160 Now does that person necessarily have to be specifically a pastor that 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.200 specific word? 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:16.960 The answer is no. 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.800 Because that's not actually even what the Lutheran confessions teach. 00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:22.160 He has to be rightly called. 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.160 It just so happens that we typically call those men pastors these 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:31.600 days. But the problem is that it is perceived, it is considered 00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:37.200 to be this granting of authority, when in reality the inverse, practically 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:43.040 the exact opposite, is more true, it is a restriction of what 00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:45.120 the pastor may properly do. 00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:49.280 Because as Woe has said many times in previous episodes, and on 00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:55.840 social media and elsewhere, when a pastor speaks, he binds consciences, and 00:18:55.840 --> 00:19:00.560 so he must be certain that he is speaking the truth, and 00:19:00.560 --> 00:19:05.520 additionally, he should not be speaking outside of those areas that have 00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:07.920 been delegated to him. 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.280 And there is a limited subset of things on which a pastor 00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:12.720 should speak. 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.200 And so no, a pastor should not be pontificating on social media 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.640 about politics. 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.920 That is not within the office of pastor. 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.400 But when he speaks, he's still asserting I'm a pastor, and therefore 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.240 I am binding your conscience with regard to this political stance, and 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.200 we see this all the time, from pastors from one end of 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.640 the political spectrum to the other, on social media and elsewhere. 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.680 They appear on TV and all sorts of places and make these 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.400 claims in the name of God. 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.480 Incidentally, that's going to be a violation of the second commandment in 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:51.200 some cases, because they are teaching falsely in the name of God. 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.480 But the central problem is that they are asserting they have this 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.880 authority that they do not have, an authority that does not pertain 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.320 to that office. 00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:04.400 The office of pastor is largely restrictive. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.520 It tells a man what he cannot do. 00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:10.960 Yes, it also tells him what he must do with regard to 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.640 the gathered church. 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.680 But if he exceeds the scope of those duties, he is no 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.600 longer acting as a pastor, even though he is still probably representing 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:23.200 himself as a pastor. 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.240 Now, of course, there are those who may have an anonymous account 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.440 or something, and that's a different matter, because then he's not asserting 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.640 he's a pastor. 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:34.640 He may very well be focusing on things on which he should 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:39.840 not be focusing, because a pastor who is properly serving his congregation 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.240 is going to be a very busy man. 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.560 He's not going to have the free time to post thousands of 00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:50.160 posts on Twitter or whatever it happens to be. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:54.880 He should be focusing on his congregation, on the souls entrusted to 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:55.760 his care. 00:20:55.760 --> 00:20:58.400 And so one of the things that we need to do as 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:04.640 Christian men, not laymen, as Christian men, is stop believing that we 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.200 need to look to pastors for every answer. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.560 That's simply false. 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:11.360 That is not the way that God has organized things. 00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:13.200 It's not the way that Scripture teaches. 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.000 If you want to go and actually find a verse, I welcome 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.120 you to try. 00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:20.400 But if you read Scripture and understand the way that God has 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:24.480 organized things, or just look at the world that he created. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.920 He has handed out different abilities to different men. 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.800 Some of those men are good at politics. 00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:33.920 That may be the office to which they are called, the skills 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:35.440 that they have been given. 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.520 That's not a pastor. 00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:40.960 A pastor has no right to tell that man how to run 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:42.320 his state. 00:21:42.320 --> 00:21:47.200 Now, if that man has questions about scripture or about scriptural morality, 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.760 he can consult a pastor by all means. 00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:53.040 But the pastor has nothing to say to him when it comes 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:57.680 to organizing the political sphere, because that is outside of the duties 00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.040 of the pastor. 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:02.720 And so if he injects himself into that, he has exceeded the 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.520 scope of his office, and he is acting improperly at best, and 00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:09.440 probably sinfully. 00:22:09.600 --> 00:22:13.200 And so we as Christian men need to get it out of 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:17.440 our minds that pastors are this special class that act as a 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.040 conscience for society. 00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:20.640 That is not their role. 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.320 That is not what they do. 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:25.920 You do not get to outsource that as a Christian man. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.080 And that's of course part of this. 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:30.560 There are those who want to be able to not deal with 00:22:30.560 --> 00:22:31.520 these issues. 00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:35.440 Well, if I can just push this off onto a man in 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.200 clericals, then I don't have to deal with it. 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:38.560 I don't have to think about it. 00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:40.480 You don't get to do that. 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.600 As a Christian man, you have duties. 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:47.440 Among those is to know the Word of God, and that's not 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.360 just from sitting in the Sunday service and listening to the sermon. 00:22:51.360 --> 00:22:54.800 It is also incumbent on you to read and meditate on the 00:22:54.800 --> 00:22:57.680 Word of God, to know what it teaches, to know how to 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.520 apply it to your life, and you don't just get to shunt 00:23:01.520 --> 00:23:03.600 all of that off under the pastor and hope that he'll do 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:05.200 the best. 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.280 That is dereliction of duty on your part. 00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:13.280 Just as it is wrong for the pastor to inject himself into 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:16.640 politics, it is wrong for you as a Christian man to think 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.640 that you can just outsource your duties to God and have someone 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:22.720 else do them. 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.120 One would think as Protestants, some of this would make sense. 00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:33.840 Because obviously in the old Roman Catholic system, you had a much 00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:38.800 greater connection between the state and the church, to the point where 00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:41.680 the Pope pretty much told princes what they could and could not 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.840 do, and could even command them to make pilgrimages as penance for 00:23:45.840 --> 00:23:48.720 telling the Pope he was wrong, that happened a number of times 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:54.800 historically. We no longer have that, and as Protestants we have never 00:23:54.800 --> 00:23:56.720 believed that was correct. 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.160 That was the Pope overstepping his authority. 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.000 He was becoming a secular authority instead of what he was supposed 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.000 to be, first among peers as a bishop. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.120 And so we shouldn't have this problem, this mindset of a clerical 00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:18.960 class being elevated over and above the hoy polloi, the average Christian 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.800 man, and yet to some degree we've imported that we sort of 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.080 kept some of the vestiges of that around. 00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:30.240 That needs to be ejected from the mind of every Christian man. 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.880 We're not saying the pastor is not important. 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.520 Pastors are vitally important. 00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.400 And if you have a godly pastor, if you have a faithful 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:41.920 shepherd, by all means you should be grateful and you should pray 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.800 for him, and aid him when and where you can. 00:24:46.800 --> 00:24:49.200 But he is also a Christian man. 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:54.080 He is not some special class, elevated above the rest of Christian 00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:57.280 men, who can order them around, who can tell them what to 00:24:57.280 --> 00:24:59.280 do in all areas of life. 00:24:59.280 --> 00:25:01.200 He has a very circumscribed area. 00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:06.560 That is his area, hopefully of expertise, that is his duty to 00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:10.560 be an expert, but that is his area in which he has 00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:12.400 rightful authority. 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.520 Outside of it, he has no authority. 00:25:15.520 --> 00:25:20.560 If he attempts to exercise authority outside of that area, he is 00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:25.600 acting beyond the scope of his office, and you can ignore him. 00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:28.320 You can in fact tell him that he should not be doing 00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:31.360 that because he has exceeded the scope of that office. 00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:34.320 He is acting inappropriately. 00:25:34.320 --> 00:25:38.240 Because a pastor is a sub-agent, is the way to think of 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.600 this. I will link an article in the show notes that goes 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:43.200 over this in more detail. 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.920 But the pastor is a subagent. 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.600 And he is a subagent of the church. 00:25:49.600 --> 00:25:52.080 The church being the agent. 00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:56.400 And of course, an agent needs a master, the master is Christ. 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:02.000 A sub agent cannot have any greater authority than the agent that 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.000 employs the sub agent, which means the pastor cannot have any greater 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.040 authority than the authority the Church has. 00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:11.440 Well what authority does the Church have? 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.840 That which is granted in Scripture. 00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:15.920 That's it. 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:20.640 Scripture is not the grant for all political authority. 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.680 Scripture is not the grant for all authority or belief with regard 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.880 to the social or cultural life of a people. 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:32.160 There are things that are left up to human wisdom. 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.760 Some of it can be known from nature, from the way that 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:39.520 God has created things, the way that He has organized His creation. 00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:43.280 But the answer to every question is not contained in Scripture, because 00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:45.760 that's not the point of Scripture. 00:26:45.760 --> 00:26:46.800 Scripture teaches 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.120 the law and the gospel. 00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:54.240 That is the core duty of the pastor, but that is also 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.560 the grant of authority to the Church. 00:26:56.560 --> 00:27:01.600 And therefore the pastor cannot have any greater authority, his scope of 00:27:01.600 --> 00:27:06.720 authority cannot be any greater than that which is contained in Scripture, 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.440 that is not true for, say, the theologian, or for the Christian 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:16.720 prince, or even just for any Christian man going about his daily 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.440 life. You have other duties in other areas of life that are 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:24.320 not exclusively of the right hand kingdom. 00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:29.280 You exist in both, you exist in the left hand kingdom, you 00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:33.680 have duties with regard to the left hand kingdom, and you have 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:39.920 to fulfill those, and your pastor has nothing to say about those. 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:44.080 Except in so far as they may touch on matters that pertain 00:27:44.080 --> 00:27:47.840 to the right hand kingdom, and so again, a pastor can advise 00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:51.840 on moral issues, with regard to what Scripture teaches. 00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:56.400 But if it's politics, if it's the culture, if it's society, if 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.160 it's these other issues that pertain to the Left Hand Kingdom, those 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.840 are outside of what a pastor should be doing with his time. 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:10.160 The history of the dichotomy of laity versus cleric is a very 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:11.360 interesting one. 00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:14.320 You don't really find it at all in the first two centuries 00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:15.280 of the church. 00:28:15.280 --> 00:28:19.120 Absolutely, there were teachers and there were preachers who were sent in 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.680 order to spread the gospel. 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.280 There were evangelists as well. 00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:25.440 Those were offices in the early church. 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.360 And everyone understood them. 00:28:27.360 --> 00:28:31.040 And scripture is very clear that those men are to be paid 00:28:31.520 --> 00:28:35.200 wages for their work, that it was an actual job that they 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.800 should be compensated for. 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:39.360 Nothing that we're saying here is in any way, shape, or form 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.520 an attack on that. 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:45.680 However, when you look, it wasn't until sometime in the third century 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:53.360 that the idea of the layman being a subclass of the church, 00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:57.840 capital C, and then the cleric being a special anointed version of 00:28:57.840 --> 00:29:00.000 it begins to emerge. 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.840 And I think the timing is very interesting because it really wasn't 00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:08.960 until you know Nicaea and then the formal recognition of Christianity as 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.720 a state church, and then it began to spread from there. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.320 In the first centuries, when the church was persecuted, there was no 00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:18.720 notion there was a special clerical class. 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.400 There were those men who in their congregations were given the task 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.360 of doing those things on behalf of the congregation, as Corey described. 00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:31.920 But there was never a notion that there was a severing of 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.800 those duties from the other men in the congregation. 00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:38.000 It was a vesting of the authority given to the priesthood of 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.880 all believers that was then say, this is our guy. 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.400 He meets the tests in Timothy, he meets the tests in the 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.280 pastoral epistles for here's what a pastor needs to be able to 00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:49.680 do. Not every man is qualified for that. 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.360 Not every man is apt to teach. 00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:55.360 Frankly today, very few pastors seem to be actually apt to teach. 00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:57.680 That's one of the requirements of the office. 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.720 And it doesn't seem like we give that much thought. 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.400 In the early days, those criteria were established in Scripture and they 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:05.440 were held to. 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.400 And in the congregations, men were raised up and they did those 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.560 things. As the church and the state 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:17.200 got on the same page in the sense that now, you know, 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:23.600 the rulers were Christian, and rather than the churches being persecuted, the 00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:28.960 churches were recognized, and then the churches were protected, it fundamentally changed 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.040 ways in some good ways. 00:30:31.040 --> 00:30:33.680 But one of the things that began to creep in then was 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:38.240 the idea that we're going to have a permanent full-time professional class 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:44.080 of super Christians, which is really kind of the arc of monasticism 00:30:44.080 --> 00:30:45.120 and everything else. 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:48.160 Yeah, there were cloisters and there were people who went off and 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.320 did their own thing even before Jesus Day. 00:30:50.320 --> 00:30:52.160 Like a monk is nothing nothing new. 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.760 And one of the things that the Lutherans battled in the Reformation 00:30:55.760 --> 00:31:00.800 was rejecting, as we've said before, this notion that, oh, I'm a 00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:03.920 very special, very dedicated Christian, so I'm going to be a monk 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:05.360 and I'm going to be a nun. 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:08.560 And so that means I'm gonna withdraw from society. 00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:11.360 I'm gonna go live some cloistered life. 00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:14.160 I'm gonna cease to do good works for my neighbor. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.600 I'm just gonna pray a lot and, you know, tend garden and 00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:20.720 study and not have any contact with the world. 00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.760 That's the worst possible thing to be doing with those people who 00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:25.920 have the most godly impulses. 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.560 If someone wants to serve God all the time, that's a guy 00:31:28.560 --> 00:31:29.920 who needs to be out every day. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.800 He needs to be out in the neighborhood riding around, helping people 00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:36.160 out. Take that zeal for the Lord and don't stick it in 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:36.960 the woods. 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.840 Put it where your neighbor needs it, because that's what God has 00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:45.520 done. And so the Reformation rightly rejected the monastic system that had 00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:49.600 emerged in the very early days of clericalism as a way of 00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:52.400 creating this two-tier system that again was false. 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.120 You don't find it in scripture, you don't find any notion of 00:31:55.120 --> 00:31:58.880 layman. You find a notion that there are Christians and then there 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.840 are Christian men who are given specific duties. 00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:05.040 They have a job to do on behalf of the congregation. 00:32:05.040 --> 00:32:09.360 And so the other point that Corey made, not only do pastors 00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:12.640 not have authority beyond their local congregation, but I want to say 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:16.800 explicitly, there's no such thing as a pastor on the internet. 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:20.720 I'm not just talking about internet churches, which are completely false. 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.480 The idea that you can have some virtual church is it's voyeuristic. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.760 It's despicable. 00:32:25.760 --> 00:32:31.280 It's an obscenity to have that sort of vicarious false notion of 00:32:31.280 --> 00:32:32.320 a church. 00:32:32.320 --> 00:32:36.880 We're talking much more simply about what Corey was discussing with regard 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.920 to the duties of a pastor. 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:42.880 A pastor has duties in his congregation because that's the only place 00:32:43.040 --> 00:32:44.160 he's a pastor. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.360 And it's crucial for a pastor to be in a congregation. 00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:48.880 Again, that's straight from scripture. 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:53.920 God has given preachers and teachers in certain places to teach the 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.600 sheep, to guard the flock in a location. 00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:00.240 In the very first episode of Stone Choir that we did, where 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.880 we were addressing the emerging issue in the In the L C 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:07.840 M S of girls teaching theology in the church in open rebellion 00:33:07.840 --> 00:33:10.720 against God with the full support of the L C M S 00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:15.600 we pointed out that a podcast like Stone Choir is also teaching, 00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:19.280 and we freely admit we are not ordained pastors. 00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:22.000 Now that I've been doxxed, I never lied about anything. 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.760 I don't have a degree in any of this stuff. 00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:26.000 I have no certifications whatsoever. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.640 I've said from the beginning, if you think that means you shouldn't 00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:29.600 listen to me, that's fine. 00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:31.760 I'm not gonna try to change your mind. 00:33:31.760 --> 00:33:35.760 Because the difference between the teaching that occurs on a podcast like 00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:39.840 this and the teaching that occurs in a church from a pastor 00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:46.320 to his congregation is that we have a one-to-many relationship with our 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.640 audience, with you the listener, where there's no accountability. 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.640 You I don't know your names. 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.480 I know virtually no one's names at this point. 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:56.800 We have well over 10,000 people listening every week. 00:33:56.800 --> 00:33:57.920 I hardly know anybody. 00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:58.960 I wish I knew more people. 00:33:59.120 --> 00:34:02.640 I'd love to get to know more people, but that's fundamentally not 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:07.120 part of the structure of one-to-many teaching. 00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:10.880 A podcast, this sort of teaching is effectively like a lecture hall 00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:12.880 where people are free to come and go. 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.240 There's no grading. 00:34:14.240 --> 00:34:17.920 You are not accountable to us if you disagree, which is why 00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.360 we've always freely said you can take or leave anything we say. 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.520 If anything that we say actually convicts your conscience, it's not because 00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:27.120 you're answerable to us. 00:34:27.120 --> 00:34:29.520 It's not because we have any authority over you. 00:34:29.520 --> 00:34:32.560 Anything that you hear us say that rings true, and you're like, 00:34:32.560 --> 00:34:33.680 Yeah, I gotta do that. 00:34:33.680 --> 00:34:35.360 It's because it's from God. 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.000 When we say what's in God's word, you know that argument is 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.320 consistent with scripture, that's God dealing with you directly. 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.200 And we happen to be the messenger, but we don't hold you 00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:48.480 accountable. That's not the case with a pastor. 00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.840 As Cory said, I reiterate, when a pastor speaks he binds consciences. 00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.360 And a pastor crucially has a one-to-one relationship with each man or 00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.600 woman in his congregation. 00:34:59.600 --> 00:35:02.800 Pastor's supposed to know every name, you know, know their history, know 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:06.640 their background, know their problems, their concerns, their strengths, their weaknesses. 00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:07.840 It's a relationship. 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.000 It's a personal relationship, which is why things like mega churches are 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.120 an abomination. 00:35:13.120 --> 00:35:17.440 You know, the Dunbar number of 150 as a social kind of 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.240 web is really about the maximum for a functioning congregation, at least 00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:23.520 with a single pastor. 00:35:23.520 --> 00:35:26.960 Because if you get beyond that, there's not a human capacity to 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.880 have inner relationships like that. 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.080 You can't have close relationships with three or four or five hundred 00:35:32.080 --> 00:35:35.440 people. And a pastor needs to have a relationship that would fall 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.800 within those bounds. 00:35:37.120 --> 00:35:41.920 That sort of teaching with authority, with God's direct command in his 00:35:42.080 --> 00:35:47.520 purview, is a very particular, exclusively local one. 00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:49.680 Pastors are only local. 00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:54.080 I have a number of friends who are pastors in various denominations. 00:35:54.080 --> 00:35:56.400 None of them are my pastor. 00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.240 So my relationship to them is as Corey was saying, as Christian 00:36:00.240 --> 00:36:02.160 men. And they know things that I don't know. 00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:04.400 And maybe I know some things that they don't know. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.400 And so what happens when we talk, it's iron sharpening iron. 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.960 Their strengths rub off my weaknesses and maybe vice versa. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.440 If I get something right that they don't happen to know, then 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.040 we can strengthen each other because that is the Christian life. 00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:23.360 And think about iron sharpening iron in the context of the layman 00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:25.680 clergy dichotomy. 00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.720 Where's the iron? 00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:29.520 Is there iron on both sides if you have clergy and laity? 00:36:29.520 --> 00:36:34.000 No. The laity can't possibly do anything but disobey or obey. 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:35.680 Like those are the only two choices. 00:36:35.680 --> 00:36:41.280 But the idea of the so-called laity, the so-called layman, strengthening the 00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:44.160 pastor beyond paying his bills and giving him a pat on the 00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:45.760 back basically doesn't exist. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:47.440 And that's completely false. 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.200 What's interesting, when you look at St. 00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:54.160 Ambrose of Milan, he was not even a cleric until by unanimous 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:57.360 assent of a crowd, he was made bishop. 00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:59.520 This was in AD 370. 00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:03.600 He was made bishop of his area by the people of the 00:37:03.600 --> 00:37:05.600 church because, like, this is the guy. 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.880 He wasn't in the establishment, he wasn't a cleric, anything of the 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.160 sort. But they said this man has the gifts to do what 00:37:12.160 --> 00:37:12.800 is needed. 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.960 We're gonna make him do this. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.280 That I think was one of probably the last gasps of the 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.160 proper understanding of Christian men being able to fulfill these functions on 00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:27.600 behalf of the local congregation, which is effectively what's happening there. 00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:31.360 Like as a bishop, he was over multiple congregations, but everybody knew 00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:33.920 him. Everyone respected him and he said, this is the guy. 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:35.360 He has the gifts. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.800 He's gonna do what we know God wants us to have done 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:40.880 here and they made him the guy. 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.960 And then he became part of the church machine, which at that 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:48.480 point was just being born Warren, but he was just a regular 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:52.320 guy. He was very special, but he wasn't groomed. 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:53.680 He wasn't certified. 00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:57.040 He had no credentials, except that everyone was like, Yep, you're the 00:37:57.040 --> 00:37:57.920 bishop now. 00:37:57.920 --> 00:37:59.040 And so that was it. 00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:00.000 He's now known as St. 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.000 Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan. 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:05.280 Because the people, the layman, incidentally, it wasn't the church that did 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:06.560 it, it was so called. 00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:09.040 Now it's this is where it gets tricky because when you say 00:38:09.040 --> 00:38:11.520 the church, people think, oh well it's gotta be the pastors and 00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:12.720 the other experts. 00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:14.160 That's the whole problem here. 00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:17.040 We have to get away from the idea that there's expertise in 00:38:17.040 --> 00:38:18.400 the church. 00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:21.440 there is in the sense that there are things that some men 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:26.160 know better than others, and certainly a full-time professional church worker, which 00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:28.720 we have today, should be a blessing. 00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:31.040 It should absolutely be the case that the guy who devotes his 00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:34.080 life to prayer and to study of scripture should know more than 00:38:34.080 --> 00:38:35.680 you. I would absolutely expect that. 00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:38.000 I mean that's frankly that's table stakes. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.640 But then the problem becomes who taught him and what did they 00:38:42.640 --> 00:38:45.280 teach? And what you find today is that a lot of the 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.520 pastors are acolytes of the very same guys who influenced men like 00:38:49.520 --> 00:38:52.400 Michael King and Bonhoeffer. 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:56.400 So when you see problems in the church from the professional church 00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:00.000 workers, we have to go back to scripture, which is why Stone 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:00.720 Choir exists. 00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:02.240 It's literally why we have the name. 00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:04.720 In the very first episode, we explain the name. 00:39:04.720 --> 00:39:05.360 We have no 00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:07.760 credentials to do this. 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:11.040 We're just a couple guys with a couple microphones saying, hey, there's 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.880 a fire and we're pulling the alarm. 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:17.440 We're the stones who cry out in the absence of a direct 00:39:17.680 --> 00:39:19.600 official certification from anybody. 00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:22.560 And yet when we speak, we're able to speak in a way 00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:25.360 that tens of thousands of people are like, Yeah, I think this 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:26.000 makes sense. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.480 This actually is what I see in the Bible. 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.880 And the fruits of that have been hundreds of people have joined 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.440 churches, probably well over a thousand at this point. 00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.920 Tons of baptisms, tons of confirmations. 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.400 A lot of people have become Christian for the first time as 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:39.440 a result of listening. 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.840 And a lot of people who are already Christians are better Christians, 00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.200 they attend more faithfully than That's God working in their lives. 00:39:45.200 --> 00:39:47.040 We don't take credit for any of that. 00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:50.080 When I say that, it's specifically to say the fruits of what 00:39:50.080 --> 00:39:52.880 we're doing, even if you can't tell if we're right or wrong 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.960 about anything, when the fruits are exclusively good, that tells you that 00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.360 there's something happening here that's godly. 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:01.440 And that is one of the tests of anything. 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.840 It's the test that we have to apply to our churches as 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:08.640 well. When you look at your local congregation, if every child who 00:40:08.640 --> 00:40:13.040 is confirmed who grows up leaves the church and apostatizes. 00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:16.240 That is poisonous fruit from a poisonous tree. 00:40:16.240 --> 00:40:18.960 I don't care what their doctrine is, I don't care what their 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:20.320 confession is. 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.840 The fact that there's nothing but a sea of gray hair in 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.320 so many churches condemns those churches out of hand as places that 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.160 have lost their lampstand. 00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:34.320 That doesn't happen without people failing to obey God. 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:35.440 That is fruit. 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.680 That is a fruit in a local congregation. 00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:41.840 And unfortunately, because pastors move around a lot, they're good pastors in 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:42.880 those situations. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:47.360 So their pastors who listen probably describes many of your congregations. 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:48.560 We're not pinning that on you. 00:40:48.560 --> 00:40:53.040 We're pinning that on the generations who came before who didn't preach 00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:55.280 the whole council of God. 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:55.600 And 00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.560 as we're looking at the state of the church, we have to 00:41:00.560 --> 00:41:03.360 get back to the whole council of God. 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:07.040 And we also have to understand that there's the flip side of 00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:10.960 this, which is Corey was saying, there's stuff the pastor simply can't 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:11.920 talk about. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:16.800 When you look at the Stone Choir library of episodes, there's some 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:22.160 stuff that's very directly apologetic, doctrinal things, like the episodes on communion 00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:25.360 and baptism that we did by request, not because we're trying to 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:27.200 proselytize everyone into being Lutheran. 00:41:27.200 --> 00:41:28.720 It's certainly what we desire. 00:41:28.720 --> 00:41:31.840 But a bunch of people said, hey, you guys have different beliefs. 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:32.560 Can you explain them? 00:41:32.560 --> 00:41:33.200 So we did. 00:41:33.200 --> 00:41:35.840 And a number of people have become Lutheran because when they heard 00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:39.120 the Lutheran explanation for baptism and communion, like, hey, that's what I 00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:41.920 believe. The only way they believe that is is in the Bible. 00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.720 And we made the argument from scripture, like, yep, there it is. 00:41:44.720 --> 00:41:47.600 That's typically the case with a basic scriptural argument. 00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:50.160 People hear it and say, yes, that's what I believe. 00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:51.840 That's the Christian response. 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.520 So a few of our episodes have been overt apologetics, a fair 00:41:55.520 --> 00:41:59.200 number have been doctrinal or scriptural in nature, and a fair number 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:02.480 are things that have nothing directly to do with the Bible. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.480 And I think that's one of the things that's been the very 00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:09.200 most upsetting to people about Stone Choir is that we talk about 00:42:09.200 --> 00:42:11.040 things that pastors can't talk about. 00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.160 That's absolutely true. 00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:15.120 There's a bunch of stuff that Stone Choir talks about that no 00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:18.000 pastor has any business ever speaking in public about. 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.160 It's completely off-limits for a pastor. 00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:23.760 Why? Because it has nothing to do with the proclamation of the 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.680 word and the administration of the sacraments in his local congregation. 00:42:27.680 --> 00:42:30.560 That doesn't mean that it's not permissible for any Christian to ever 00:42:30.560 --> 00:42:33.200 say. And I think that's one of the crucial things that we 00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:33.920 all need to understand. 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.600 Because this is not just about us. 00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:36.800 This is about many of you. 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.920 It's about a lot of you as you are becoming more engaged 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:40.720 in your faith. 00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:43.280 And you're like, hey, I see the world burning. 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.000 My Christian faith helps to explain what's going on. 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.200 I want to do something. 00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:50.800 And suddenly from behind, we have our own pastor saying, no, no, 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:51.840 no, you can't do that. 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:53.280 We have to be passive in the world. 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.720 We can't get engaged in the politics of the world. 00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:01.360 What's fascinating is that if you take the set of things that 00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:06.720 the New Global Religion and the World Economic Forum and NBC say 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.240 are morality, say things that are wicked, and you take the set 00:43:10.240 --> 00:43:14.000 of things that the vast majority of our pastors are saying, you 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.040 guys can't do that. 00:43:15.040 --> 00:43:17.040 You can't do a Christian nationalism. 00:43:17.040 --> 00:43:18.320 You can't do a racism. 00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:19.840 You can't do any of these things. 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:21.200 These are all wicked. 00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:22.880 It's the same picture. 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:26.240 All the stuff that's coming from our pulpits is identical to what's 00:43:26.240 --> 00:43:28.000 coming from the new global religion. 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.240 And that's much of the impetus for Stone Choir. 00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:31.840 Is that we're saying, you know what? 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:32.960 I see evil in the world. 00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:34.480 Corey sees evil in the world. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:35.840 You see evil in the world. 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.240 And when we find the same evil espoused in our pulpits, and 00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:43.040 then they're doing it in the name of God, when clearly the 00:43:43.040 --> 00:43:45.920 World Economic Forum and NBC aren't doing it in the name of 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.280 God. Yet they have identical morality, they have identical arguments. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.320 The only difference is that the pastors also will staple on a 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.680 couple Bible verses and try to bind your conscience to do what 00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:58.080 Klaus Schwab wants you to do. 00:43:58.080 --> 00:44:01.760 That is when it becomes a matter for Christian men. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:06.240 And when we find a case where pastors, those who are raised 00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:09.840 up by their congregations to speak in the name of God, are 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.720 shooting Christian men in the back in the name of the World 00:44:12.720 --> 00:44:17.760 Economic Forum and NBC in in every form of modern evil, that 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:19.520 is when we have a problem. 00:44:19.520 --> 00:44:23.200 And that's when things get noisy and they get smoky and it's 00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:25.280 loud and it's unpleasant. 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:27.760 And you have fights and you have controversies. 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:32.080 That does not mean that the person who pointed out the air 00:44:32.080 --> 00:44:34.000 is the one who's sinned. 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.480 The sin is defined by scripture. 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.600 And when you look, you know, we did the episodes on slavery 00:44:39.600 --> 00:44:44.800 and feminism, all these things that are absolute moral prohibition matters in 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:47.120 the new global religion. 00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:50.480 We made the scriptural argument against those things or for those things, 00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.160 as the case may be. 00:44:52.160 --> 00:44:56.480 And the men in the pulpits don't believe what's in the Bible. 00:44:56.720 --> 00:45:00.080 You know, the LCMS put out a press release condemning Stone Choir 00:45:00.080 --> 00:45:03.920 almost by name, those very clearly about us, and they condemned a 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:06.080 whole bunch of things that are straight out of the Bible. 00:45:06.080 --> 00:45:09.200 And every pastor in the Missouri Senate is a signatory to that 00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:11.360 blasphemous statement to this day. 00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:15.840 It stands as record, it's the official position of those Lutherans that 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.560 the God of the Bible is wicked, and they condemned it in 00:45:18.560 --> 00:45:19.920 the name of Jesus. 00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:23.680 The arguments that we made when we spoke in favor or against 00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:28.320 those things in contradistinction to the LCMS were straight from scripture. 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.600 Those episodes like the one on slavery was entirely a Bible study. 00:45:31.600 --> 00:45:35.120 It was not exhaustive, but it was almost a tedious going through 00:45:35.120 --> 00:45:36.800 of all these different Bible verses. 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.720 Why? Because the Bible says one thing and the church says another. 00:45:40.720 --> 00:45:45.280 And slavery is simultaneously a moral issue and a political issue. 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.640 And it's one thing, you know, pastors slavery's not a live issue 00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:51.760 except to morally condemn men who say it's not a sin. 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:53.440 Which is why we did that episode. 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:57.520 I wouldn't expect a pastor to necessarily stir that up, although as 00:45:57.520 --> 00:46:00.240 we made the case in that episode, when you look at how 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.480 scripture describes slavery, it's clear that we all remain slaves. 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.840 We're slaves of Christ. 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.280 The Christian freedom that we were given as a gift is not 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:11.600 license. It's not unlimited freedom. 00:46:11.600 --> 00:46:16.160 It's freedom from the consequences for our sin eternally. 00:46:16.160 --> 00:46:20.880 It's freedom from being bound to continuously sin against God. 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:23.760 We'll still keep sinning, but we have the ability to resist it 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:25.760 and to certainly sin less. 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:28.400 Christian freedom doesn't mean absolute freedom. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:30.880 It means that we are free to be children of God, and 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:34.320 that it looks different than being children of the world. 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.920 And I wish the pastors were making those points, but the fact 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.880 that they're not being made in our pulpits doesn't mean that they 00:46:41.040 --> 00:46:42.560 have to stop being made. 00:46:42.560 --> 00:46:46.400 And so all Christian men have a duty to say this is 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:48.800 in the Bible and this is what I see in the world, 00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:51.440 and we need to get them both on the same page. 00:46:52.080 --> 00:46:56.560 and A faithful Christian pastor would celebrate that, but he would not 00:46:56.560 --> 00:46:59.040 talk about it online because there's no such thing as a pastor 00:46:59.040 --> 00:47:00.000 on the internet. 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.880 It's just another Christian man in the best case. 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:05.520 And frankly, in a lot of cases, those guys are not Christians 00:47:05.520 --> 00:47:06.080 at all. 00:47:06.080 --> 00:47:10.000 And that's their problem because that's between them and God and they're 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.000 in their own local congregation. 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.520 But what they cannot do is speak to you from afar and 00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:17.840 say, you can't do that, you can't talk about that. 00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:19.440 That's utterly impermissible. 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.880 They are so far beyond the bounds of their vocation. 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.920 Even if they were right, they still have no right to tell 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:26.720 you that. 00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:29.520 And when they're lying, they're sinning against God in the most evil 00:47:29.520 --> 00:47:30.160 way possible 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:31.440 So 00:47:31.520 --> 00:47:35.440 the question then becomes: what exactly is the sort of involvement you 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:41.920 can have from pastors in Christian movements, particularly with regard to the 00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:43.680 left-hand kingdom? 00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:48.720 Which you can just call political as a sort of shorthand. 00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:51.840 Well, for one I would first like to read just one verse 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.960 from scripture to ground some of this from Second Timothy. 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.520 No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to 00:47:59.520 --> 00:48:01.920 please the one who enlisted him. 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.120 If we apply this passage, this verse, to pastors, it's very clear 00:48:07.120 --> 00:48:11.920 where the dividing line is here The civilian pursuits in which the 00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.240 soldier, the pastor in this case, is not supposed to become engaged, 00:48:16.240 --> 00:48:21.200 not supposed to become entangled, would be the political. 00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:25.520 So can a pastor be part of a political movement, perhaps an 00:48:25.520 --> 00:48:27.840 explicitly Christian political movement? 00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.080 The answer would be yes. 00:48:30.080 --> 00:48:32.720 But he cannot become entangled in it. 00:48:32.720 --> 00:48:36.320 Which is to say he is supposed to focus on the pursuits 00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:40.160 that have been assigned to him by virtue of his office. 00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:43.760 And so the soldier focuses on being a soldier instead of civilian 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:48.240 pursuits. Which is to say a pastor is not going to be 00:48:48.240 --> 00:48:51.200 a leader in any political movement. 00:48:51.200 --> 00:48:56.560 Because that would certainly be to become entangled in those pursuits that 00:48:56.560 --> 00:48:58.880 are outside of his office. 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:02.000 So a pastor can be a member in a political movement. 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.320 That's entirely fine for a pastor. 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.640 Of course, that comes down to a matter of wisdom. 00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:10.160 The individual pastor will have to decide if that is a proper 00:49:10.160 --> 00:49:12.480 thing for him to do or not to do. 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:16.080 And he should do that in light of scripture and prayer and 00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:20.000 meditation on the Word of God. 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.640 But no political movement, and particularly no political movement on the right, 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.880 should have a pastor in a leadership position. 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:33.840 Because then he is effectively deserting his office as pastor and becoming 00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:36.960 entangled in other pursuits. 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:40.960 Now it's a question whether or not someone who once was a 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:45.120 pastor could give up that office and then go into politics. 00:49:45.120 --> 00:49:46.720 That becomes a gray area. 00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:50.640 It's going to be a question of wisdom, which I recognize. 00:49:50.640 --> 00:49:55.280 We both recognize that that can be an unsatisfying answer, but it 00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.720 is the reality. 00:49:56.720 --> 00:50:01.360 There are questions in this life that are matters of wisdom. 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:06.400 They are fact specific and there's no way around that. 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:12.080 You are going to have to analyze those issues as they arise. 00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:16.960 This is similar to some issues in the legal sphere. 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:18.560 Some things are open and shut. 00:50:18.720 --> 00:50:20.080 Some things are very clear. 00:50:20.080 --> 00:50:23.200 You can have a crime, and it has elements. 00:50:23.200 --> 00:50:25.600 If you fulfill the elements, that's it. 00:50:25.600 --> 00:50:27.360 The crime occurred. 00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.480 Sometimes the inquiry can be fact specific. 00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:34.320 You can have to look at the specific facts of the situation 00:50:34.560 --> 00:50:38.720 of what happened in order to determine whether or not it fits 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:42.880 this law or that law, this violation, whatever it happens to be. 00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:46.080 That is the case for many things in the Christian life, except 00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:48.400 it's a matter of wisdom. 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:50.000 That is unavoidable. 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.840 You are going to actually have to do your homework sometimes. 00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:59.280 Just as I said earlier in this episode, you cannot just shove 00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:02.800 all your duties off onto your pastor with regard to learning the 00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:06.080 scriptures. You have to do the work yourself. 00:51:06.080 --> 00:51:07.840 You have to read the scripture. 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:09.440 You have to meditate on it. 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:11.520 You have to understand it. 00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:14.560 That doesn't mean you have to understand everything. 00:51:14.560 --> 00:51:17.920 It doesn't mean you can't consult your pastor or teachers. 00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:19.680 Those are blessings from God. 00:51:19.680 --> 00:51:23.280 You should use all of the resources that He has made available 00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.920 to you, and that does include your pastor. 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:31.120 But your pastor is not a substitute for the duties that you 00:51:31.120 --> 00:51:34.160 have as a Christian man. 00:51:34.160 --> 00:51:38.960 So to return to the issue of pastoral involvement in political movements 00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:39.520 and such 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:44.080 The simple rule, and this is one case where we can actually 00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:48.400 give you a simple rule, pastors can be involved, but not as 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:53.440 leaders. Because that would be a violation of their office, of their 00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:58.160 duties. It is to become entangled in other pursuits, to become distracted 00:51:58.160 --> 00:51:59.840 by other pursuits. 00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:04.480 And as we've both said, a pastor is already going to be 00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:06.400 a very busy man. 00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:10.560 You can only maintain so many close relationships, and as well said, 00:52:10.560 --> 00:52:13.920 the pastor needs to have a one to one relationship with every 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.280 single sheep, with every member of his flock. 00:52:18.240 --> 00:52:21.520 And past a certain number, you simply can't do that. 00:52:21.520 --> 00:52:25.520 But even if you are below that number, if you're approaching that 00:52:25.520 --> 00:52:29.440 number, it is going to involve many hours a week. 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:34.640 There are certainly pastors out there investing 60, 70 hours a week. 00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:36.880 That is a more than full time job. 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:40.800 You cannot have something else on top of that without neglecting something 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:47.680 somewhere. And this is the case in so many different pursuits in 00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:53.520 life. If you spend 80 hours a week at the office, your 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.360 neglecting your duties as a father. 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:00.320 That's simply the reality of it. 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.400 Part of these duties is going to be a matter of time 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:08.240 invested. Not everything is just a matter of did you do the 00:53:08.240 --> 00:53:10.320 thing? Did you check the box? 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.600 Some of it is simply a matter of the number of hours 00:53:13.600 --> 00:53:16.480 invested is your duty. 00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:19.920 That is the case in basically all human relationships. 00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:23.200 You need to spend a certain number of hours each week with 00:53:23.200 --> 00:53:24.480 your wife. 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.720 It's not just Did you tell her I love you in the 00:53:26.720 --> 00:53:32.800 morning. In order to maintain those one to one relationships, a pastor 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:36.960 is going to have to invest time in each and every single 00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.800 one of those relationships. 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:40.960 That is a full-time job. 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:44.800 He cannot afford to be distracted by these other things. 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.760 And so, yes, there are sort of two aspects to this, two 00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.520 sides of the coin. 00:53:49.520 --> 00:53:53.040 On the one hand, the pastor cannot be distracted from his duties 00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.240 by becoming entangled in other pursuits. 00:53:56.240 --> 00:54:00.560 But as mentioned earlier on the other side, he has no right. 00:54:00.560 --> 00:54:05.280 He has no special knowledge or authority or whatever it happens to 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:09.200 be, by virtue of being a pastor, to involve himself in these 00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:10.720 other things. 00:54:10.720 --> 00:54:14.400 And so no, a pastor can't tell you Oh politically you must 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:16.480 do XY and Z. 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:21.600 Now he can say that scripturally speaking, you must oppose abortion, which 00:54:21.600 --> 00:54:23.440 some are going to say oh that's a political issue. 00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:26.480 No, it's a moral issue, and scripture is very clear. 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.440 The pastor can certainly speak to that, and a pastor should speak 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:33.600 to that, just as a pastor should oppose so called homosexual marriage, 00:54:33.600 --> 00:54:36.640 and any of a number of other issues that are live in 00:54:36.640 --> 00:54:38.000 our society. 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:43.680 No But when it comes to the explicitly political movement, that is 00:54:43.680 --> 00:54:45.760 something for Christian men. 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.480 That is a duty of Christian men to organize that, to pursue 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:54.960 that, to make sure that those things occur with regard to the 00:54:54.960 --> 00:55:00.640 left hand kingdom, to bring things back to a Christian standing. 00:55:00.640 --> 00:55:05.280 To restore what our ancestors had and enjoyed for centuries, because they 00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.040 had a Christian society. 00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:11.040 It is on Christian men to restore that, not on pastors. 00:55:11.040 --> 00:55:13.520 Pastors aren't part of that. 00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:18.240 The only role that pastors play in that is they need to 00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:25.760 be teaching true doctrine, the full counsel of God, to their congregations. 00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:29.280 Because in order to have the Christian men in the left hand 00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:35.680 kingdom organizing these political movements, organizing these cultural movements, whatever it happens 00:55:35.680 --> 00:55:39.280 to be, those men have to be Christian men. 00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:41.840 And to be Christian men they have to be trained. 00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:44.400 And for that you need teachers and pastors. 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.000 And so pastors do have a vitally important duty, and we wish 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.480 that more of them would do it faithfully. 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:53.920 But it pertains to the right hand kingdom, not to the left 00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:54.880 hand kingdom. 00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:58.320 And so as Woe said, when you have pastors, who assert, well 00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.120 I have an M div, and so I can bind your conscience 00:56:01.120 --> 00:56:04.080 by saying this thing that you tweeted was mean. 00:56:04.080 --> 00:56:05.280 Ignore him. 00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:07.280 He has no authority to tell you that. 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:11.120 His office means nothing in that context. 00:56:11.120 --> 00:56:12.880 You are not one of his sheep. 00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:15.680 Now, if you are one of his sheep, you should probably at 00:56:15.680 --> 00:56:19.520 least listen to what he has to say, discuss it with him. 00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:21.600 But if you aren't one of his sheep, if you're not a 00:56:21.600 --> 00:56:23.360 member of his congregation? 00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:26.080 Don't listen to that man. 00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:29.680 Quite frankly, by virtue of the fact that he thinks he has 00:56:29.680 --> 00:56:33.840 that authority, he has proven himself incompetent. 00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:38.880 Because Because he is saying, I, as a pastor, have authority over 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.480 all Christians. 00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:43.040 Absolutely nowhere is that found in Scripture. 00:56:43.040 --> 00:56:45.040 You know what has authority over all Christians? 00:56:45.040 --> 00:56:46.560 The Word of God. 00:56:46.560 --> 00:56:48.480 And so if he wants to speak to you as a Christian 00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:54.080 man, and say, according to the Word of God, here, in the 00:56:54.080 --> 00:57:00.720 Word of God, citing you to Scripture, this argument is against what 00:57:00.720 --> 00:57:01.760 you've said. 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:03.440 By all means that's fine. 00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.400 Because he is doing that as a Christian man. 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.600 But if he is doing it as a pastor, then we have 00:57:09.600 --> 00:57:10.480 a problem. 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:15.280 And as mentioned, the issue here, if he presents himself as a 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.280 pastor when he is doing this, he is doing it deliberately to 00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:20.880 bind consciences. 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.000 And if he doesn't recognize that that is what he is doing, 00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:27.120 again, that's a competency issue. 00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:30.400 And so if he has an anonymous account, that's one thing. 00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:34.080 But if he's doing it as a pastor, he has stepped outside 00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:37.440 the bounds of his office, and you do not have to listen 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:38.480 to him. 00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:42.320 If he's doing it in citing scripture, perhaps read the scripture he 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:44.400 cites, because that is actually an authority. 00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:46.400 You are bound by the Word of God. 00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:49.280 But his collar doesn't bind you. 00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:53.280 And incidentally, I said we would return to the issue of the 00:57:53.280 --> 00:58:00.160 collar. We need to recognize again the symbolism what that collar is, 00:58:00.160 --> 00:58:05.120 and those traditions, those denominations that have abandoned it should probably consider 00:58:05.120 --> 00:58:06.880 readopting it. 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:10.320 It represents that restriction. 00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:13.040 The pastor is a slave. 00:58:13.040 --> 00:58:15.280 He is a slave of the church. 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:21.200 He has no authority beyond that which the church herself may wield. 00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:25.840 And so if he acts outside that authority, he is faithless. 00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:32.400 That collar is a symbol of the restrictions of the pastoral office, 00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:35.760 and also of the duties imposed on the pastor, of course. 00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:39.600 But it is a reminder that he has limitations in what he 00:58:39.600 --> 00:58:42.560 may and may not do by virtue of the office that he 00:58:42.560 --> 00:58:44.960 has That he has assumed. 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:48.800 Yes, it may be that he has pursued that office or it 00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.640 was thrust upon him, as has been the case historically. 00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:56.320 But regardless of how he obtained it, by virtue of the fact 00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:00.320 that he has the office, there are restrictions on what he may 00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:05.280 and what he may not do that are not true for Christian 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:10.880 men generally, particularly for certain Christian men, theologians, for instance, do not 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:15.360 have the same restrictions as a pastor, because not all of the 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:20.480 authority for a theologian flows from Scripture, because the church of course 00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:24.560 is bound by Scripture, and the pastor is bound by the church. 00:59:24.560 --> 00:59:29.120 A theologian is bound by the abilities God has given him. 00:59:29.120 --> 00:59:31.520 And so that is more a matter of wisdom. 00:59:31.520 --> 00:59:34.800 That is a more difficult line to discern. 00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:38.240 And of course, a theologian, just like any other teacher, is going 00:59:38.240 --> 00:59:41.040 to be subject to the stricter judgment, and so he should be 00:59:41.040 --> 00:59:43.040 careful when he speaks. 00:59:43.040 --> 00:59:46.880 I'm not saying theologians have the ability to just run their mouths, 00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:48.560 they should absolutely not do that. 00:59:48.560 --> 00:59:51.440 And a man who has been given those gifts by God should 00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.200 certainly know better. 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:56.880 No, you don't bind consciences in the same way as a pastor 00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:58.960 does, but at the same time 01:00:00.160 --> 01:00:04.000 there is a little bit of that inherent when a man speaks 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.120 as a theologian, when a man speaks as a teacher. 01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:09.920 Because if you are teaching the Word of God, you are saying 01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:13.280 this is true, according to the Word of God. 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.520 You are speaking in God's name. 01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:19.360 If you are speaking truthfully, that is a good work, that is 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:22.720 commendable, God will reward you for that. 01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:26.880 But if you are speaking falsely, that is a violation second commandment, 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:31.120 that is sin, and you will you will be judged for what 01:00:31.120 --> 01:00:33.680 you have said that was false. 01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:33.920 And 01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:37.360 as I said at the outset, one of the things we wanted 01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:41.360 to cover today was effectively ecumenism in the trenches. 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:48.320 And so after circumscribing where pastors may and may not tread, I 01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:52.800 want this conversation to be about Christian men as we interact with 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:53.520 each other. 01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:56.560 Because Because we're all facing the same challenges. 01:00:56.560 --> 01:01:02.240 We're facing the same spiritual landscape, the same political landscape, the same 01:01:02.240 --> 01:01:06.640 threats to our communities, many of the same problems in our congregations, 01:01:06.640 --> 01:01:12.000 you know, across every facet of the Christian life is under assault 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.640 today for us as Christian men. 01:01:14.640 --> 01:01:19.680 And one of the unprecedented things about that a That assault is 01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:23.600 that as I said earlier, for the first three hundred years of 01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:28.000 the church, before the laity clerical distinction really took hold, the church 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:29.920 was under persecution. 01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:33.120 And then we had a period of about what fourteen hundred years 01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:34.240 where 01:01:35.200 --> 01:01:40.320 in greater and greater scope almost exclusively in Europe for much of 01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:43.760 it, the church took hold, Christianity took hold. 01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:49.360 Entire nations were Christianized and became completely Christian in terms of their 01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:54.400 laws, their culture, their expectations for how men would deal with each 01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:56.080 other, and then the churches that they had. 01:01:56.080 --> 01:01:59.520 And when I say completely Christian, I don't mean doctrinally pure. 01:01:59.520 --> 01:02:04.080 I just mean that competing demonic religions were not tolerated among them. 01:02:04.080 --> 01:02:06.720 There was a monopoly, because there's one God. 01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:09.920 And when they recognized that, they acted accordingly. 01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:12.800 And then about 300 years ago, with the enlightenment 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:18.480 being born and giving birth to this new global religion that's been 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:22.400 slowly emerging from the slime ever since, we've seen the death of 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:26.960 Christendom. We have seen Christianity come increasingly under attack. 01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:32.880 We have seen the Christian life eroded and Christian nations torn down 01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:37.520 and replaced by exclusively and explicitly secular nations. 01:02:37.520 --> 01:02:41.200 And even a place like the United States that was born from 01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:45.920 one of the many revolutions at that time, the First Amendment was 01:02:46.240 --> 01:02:48.000 trying to cut the baby in half. 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:50.160 It's trying to split the baby and say, well, we're not going 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:53.200 to have a state religion, we're gonna let anyone have whatever religion 01:02:53.200 --> 01:02:54.320 that's be nice. 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:56.400 We're gonna let everybody get along. 01:02:56.400 --> 01:03:02.320 And although it was still overwhelmingly Christian religions that were preserved, as 01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:05.360 later on the arguments were made, well obviously this applies to all 01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:08.480 religions, eventually the courts like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:14.160 Because the nation was necessarily de-Christianized by the fact that it refused 01:03:14.160 --> 01:03:16.560 to have a monopoly on the faith. 01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:20.240 And And 250 years on in the United States, and you know, 01:03:20.240 --> 01:03:23.600 about 300 years give or take on in the Enlightenment in the 01:03:23.600 --> 01:03:25.760 West, Christendom's dead. 01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:27.920 There are no Christian nations left. 01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:29.920 There are no Christian governments. 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:33.920 There are no Christian leaders, almost without exception. 01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:36.960 Even the ones who say that they are are the most rank 01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.680 form of Judaizing heretics you can imagine. 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:43.280 Some of those wicked men serving some of the most wicked people 01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:44.000 on the planet. 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:46.000 And they're doing it in the name of God. 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:48.960 Makes perfect sense if you understand scripture. 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:51.520 And so one of the places where Corey and I diverge from 01:03:51.520 --> 01:03:54.320 the post-millennial guys, many of whom are in the audience, we get 01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:56.960 along because we want to see the same things happen. 01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:02.640 We simply disagree about the eschatological nature of the outcome of what 01:04:02.640 --> 01:04:06.000 we do in these hours to try to serve God. 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:06.960 And it doesn't matter. 01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:08.240 That's above our pay grade. 01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:11.600 When God puts out the lights and judges us all from the 01:04:11.600 --> 01:04:13.040 judgment throne is up to him. 01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:14.720 No one knows the day, the hour, or the hour. 01:04:14.720 --> 01:04:16.080 We don't need to worry about it. 01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:20.240 So it doesn't preoccupy us at all whether we win or lose 01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:21.840 as we fight these battles. 01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:26.480 Our concern is simply when our master arrives, we're being faithful stewards, 01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:30.720 we're keeping a watch, and we're obeying as we've been called to. 01:04:30.720 --> 01:04:33.760 The task that we have as Christian men is that we must 01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:37.760 We must first necessarily acknowledge that we must re Christianize the West, 01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:39.200 that is no longer Christian. 01:04:39.200 --> 01:04:40.400 I made the case last week. 01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:43.040 We made the case even in the Christian churches. 01:04:43.040 --> 01:04:47.360 It's overwhelming we not Christian when you actually look at the definition 01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:49.280 of Christianity. 01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:52.000 And so the good news in those places where people are saying, 01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.480 I'm Christian, I believe the Bible, okay, great. 01:04:54.640 --> 01:04:56.320 Let's look at what the Bible says. 01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:59.360 And hopefully the Christians in those places will say, Oh wow, that's 01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:00.320 not at all what I thought. 01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.760 That's not what I was taught. 01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:03.440 Okay, believe what the Bible says. 01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:04.880 Now you're actually a Christian. 01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:06.960 I want to beat up on people and say, no, no, no, 01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:08.240 you're all bad, you're all going to hell. 01:05:08.240 --> 01:05:09.920 I want to say you believe in God, great. 01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:11.120 Here's what he says. 01:05:11.120 --> 01:05:13.920 It's the closest thing we have to a winning move because it's 01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:16.080 just pointing to what God says. 01:05:16.080 --> 01:05:20.240 God will win the souls that He has elected to be in 01:05:20.240 --> 01:05:25.360 eternity. The problem that we have as Christian men when we're looking 01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:31.600 at this atmosphere, is that I think part of the dichotomy that 01:05:31.600 --> 01:05:35.280 we have all been given of layman versus cleric is that we 01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:39.200 feel that we need a permission slip from the Bible and from 01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.040 our pastor to do anything really. 01:05:43.040 --> 01:05:46.000 You know, it's very common where we say something on stone choir 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.520 that's not directly scriptural. 01:05:47.520 --> 01:05:50.320 It's just, you know, talking about race or whatever. 01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:55.520 We're talking about some plainly demonstrable factual thing in the world. 01:05:55.520 --> 01:05:59.120 And the default response from a certain type of person, it's not 01:05:59.120 --> 01:06:00.720 even a bad response. 01:06:00.720 --> 01:06:04.000 It's a right response in one sense is what's the Bible verse 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:04.560 that says that? 01:06:05.120 --> 01:06:06.400 I don't want to pan that. 01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:08.000 It's a good attitude. 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:11.200 The problem is that not everything is in the Bible. 01:06:11.200 --> 01:06:13.920 All of morality is in the Bible, not all truth is in 01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:14.480 the Bible. 01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:16.880 It's two distinct things. 01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:20.560 You cannot have morality from outside the Bible. 01:06:20.560 --> 01:06:24.000 You can have facts from outside the Bible. 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:28.400 And so when we, as teachers who are not pastors, we are 01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:32.160 not bound to stick to the sort of things that a pastor 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.400 has. We can talk about whatever we want. 01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:37.760 And as Christians, we're bound to say Christian things about it. 01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:39.840 But if we want to talk about race or we want to 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:41.920 talk about politics, we're free to. 01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:43.760 And no one can tell us though we can't. 01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:45.280 I think that's one of the wild things. 01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:47.760 I'm this when I say we, I mean you too. 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:54.400 If you have an opinion about demographics or immigration or alien invasion 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.000 or whatever thing you think is important, you are free to have 01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:58.720 that opinion. 01:06:58.720 --> 01:07:02.320 And your pastor cannot tell you that you may not have that 01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:07.280 opinion. And this is the crux of the necessity for this episode, 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.640 is that the notion of well, I need to find a Bible 01:07:10.640 --> 01:07:14.240 verse to give me permission to say the races exist and that 01:07:14.240 --> 01:07:15.120 they're different. 01:07:15.120 --> 01:07:18.720 I need my pastor to give me permission before I can have 01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:22.640 an opinion about seven million aliens coming into the country in the 01:07:22.640 --> 01:07:23.360 past year. 01:07:23.600 --> 01:07:24.880 No, you don't. 01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:26.960 You don't need your pastor's permission at all. 01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:29.920 In fact, your pastor has no business talking about that stuff at 01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:33.040 all. If he wants to talk about it in the church context, 01:07:33.040 --> 01:07:35.120 I hope he finds something Christian to say. 01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:37.120 There are Christian things to say. 01:07:37.120 --> 01:07:42.480 Like when a country is overrun by foreigners, that's God's judgment. 01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:47.440 When your belongings and your produce are devoured by aliens, that's God 01:07:48.080 --> 01:07:49.680 pouring out his wrath on you. 01:07:49.680 --> 01:07:53.200 When you were ruled by women and by foreigners, that is God 01:07:53.200 --> 01:07:54.080 judging you. 01:07:54.080 --> 01:07:55.600 That's what a pastor can say. 01:07:55.600 --> 01:07:58.480 He can say, You see these people pouring over the border, and 01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:01.520 you see these people in Congress who do not look like us 01:08:01.600 --> 01:08:04.640 and are not men, this is God pouring out his wrath. 01:08:04.640 --> 01:08:06.000 That's a Christian thing to say. 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:08.000 If they want to say that, that'd be great. 01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:10.320 No argument for me because that's in scripture. 01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:12.720 We will never stand in opposition to scripture. 01:08:12.720 --> 01:08:15.200 However, they're never going to say those things. 01:08:15.200 --> 01:08:17.440 Pastors almost never going to say that. 01:08:17.440 --> 01:08:20.160 What they will say is that you're not allowed to do a 01:08:20.160 --> 01:08:21.520 Christian nationalism. 01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:24.080 You're not allowed to say that races exist. 01:08:24.080 --> 01:08:27.440 You're not allowed to say that if a certain race is overwhelmingly 01:08:28.080 --> 01:08:32.080 committing virtually all the crime, I care about that as a member 01:08:32.080 --> 01:08:33.280 of my community. 01:08:33.280 --> 01:08:36.080 Pastors are overwhelmingly going to condemn that. 01:08:36.080 --> 01:08:40.160 Why? Because it's in opposition to the new global religion. 01:08:40.480 --> 01:08:42.960 As I said earlier, when you look at the set of things 01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:46.480 that actually get most of these guys animated, not all of them, 01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:49.520 they're good and faithful pastors who stick to scripture. 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:54.320 And frankly, as these ideas are spreading, there are more of them 01:08:54.400 --> 01:08:57.520 because men who are actually Christian who have never heard those arguments 01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.480 before, like, oh yeah, the Bible says that. 01:09:00.480 --> 01:09:01.840 I I remember that. 01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:03.040 I remember reading it. 01:09:03.040 --> 01:09:05.040 And I can actually see how it applies. 01:09:05.040 --> 01:09:09.040 More and more of those good Christian men who were misled by 01:09:09.040 --> 01:09:13.760 their education as they hear these arguments coming from outside of the 01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:17.440 machinery of the denominations, like, oh yeah, that's what God says. 01:09:17.440 --> 01:09:19.040 And I see with my own eyes. 01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:22.800 And it's very clear to those Christian men who happen to be 01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:26.400 in the office of pastor that yeah, what some of these other 01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.120 guys who are saying that were outside of the system, these stones 01:09:29.120 --> 01:09:32.720 that have been crying for a while, they had something that I 01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:34.960 needed to learn. 01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:38.240 We as Christian men must engage in the context where God has 01:09:38.240 --> 01:09:38.800 put us. 01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:41.760 That's a recurring theme that we have. 01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:45.840 Wherever you are, what your neighborhood is, your neighbors, your community, your 01:09:46.080 --> 01:09:50.480 your family, these are your concentric circles. 01:09:50.480 --> 01:09:53.600 This is where your greatest duty lies. 01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:56.320 And there are many political duties there. 01:09:56.320 --> 01:09:57.360 Most of it is. 01:09:57.360 --> 01:10:01.120 Even the things where sharing the gospel is going to increase the 01:10:01.120 --> 01:10:05.360 spiritual health and well-being of people and then improve those other things. 01:10:05.360 --> 01:10:08.000 You need to tend to the material needs as well. 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:10.560 And in many cases, you need to attend to the material needs 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.680 first. You know, and that's a great opportunity to share the gospel. 01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:16.400 Like when you go and you donate your time and you work 01:10:16.400 --> 01:10:19.360 with people who need help and maybe they ask you why, you 01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:21.280 say, I'm here because I'm a Christian. 01:10:21.280 --> 01:10:22.480 I have a duty to help you. 01:10:22.480 --> 01:10:24.320 I don't know you, but you're my neighbor. 01:10:24.320 --> 01:10:26.640 Therefore I'm gonna do whatever I can to help you. 01:10:26.640 --> 01:10:30.960 To show that sort of Christian love is a better advertisement than 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:34.640 hanging up a flag or putting up a YouTube stream or anything, 01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:38.080 actually, showing the Christian life in action can only happen in real 01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:40.880 life. You can't be a virtual Christian. 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:43.760 You can only do it with your community. 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:46.800 And so we as Christian men have a duty to do all 01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:47.600 those things. 01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:50.080 And where the things that we have to say and the things 01:10:50.080 --> 01:10:53.760 that we have to do run afoul, the global religion, and pastors 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:56.880 come screaming behind us saying, no, no, you can't say that. 01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:59.440 We need to silence them and we need to remove them from 01:10:59.440 --> 01:11:00.400 the equation. 01:11:00.400 --> 01:11:04.480 They don't get to stop what is a Christian act. 01:11:04.480 --> 01:11:06.960 And the fact that, as Corey said, the fact that they would 01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:11.520 try to stop things or that they would get things wrong proves 01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:14.960 not only that they are on a frolic, that they're completely off 01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:19.920 the reservation in terms of their office, but it demonstrates unequivocally that 01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:22.240 they're unfit for the office that they claim to hold. 01:11:22.240 --> 01:11:25.200 A faithful pastor would never be running up behind you screaming and 01:11:25.200 --> 01:11:27.920 shouting for you to stop doing what the Bible says, or to 01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:29.760 stop believing what's in the Bible. 01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.920 That only comes from one source. 01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:35.120 I wish I had a better, more catchy name than Global Religion, 01:11:35.120 --> 01:11:37.040 'cause it's kind of a mouthful and it it's kind of a 01:11:37.040 --> 01:11:39.200 curb appeal, but that's exactly what it is. 01:11:39.200 --> 01:11:43.840 It is a global religion that's held everywhere universally, in the church, 01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:47.520 in the media, in every country in the world, every politician has 01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:50.480 the same morality as most of our pastors. 01:11:50.480 --> 01:11:53.600 That should be one of the most terrifying things that we face, 01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:56.320 because that morality runs the gamut. 01:11:56.320 --> 01:12:02.960 It completely obliterates the right-hand kingdom set of word and sacrament that 01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:08.080 the church congregation is erected and created by God to faithfully deliver 01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:10.240 to the sheep. 01:12:10.240 --> 01:12:13.440 The congregation is there to do a certain limited set of things, 01:12:13.440 --> 01:12:16.960 and the pastor is the steward of those mysteries. 01:12:16.960 --> 01:12:22.240 The fact that those stewards have set aside the word and they're 01:12:22.240 --> 01:12:27.120 not properly administering the sacraments for the sake of screaming at people 01:12:27.120 --> 01:12:32.960 on the internet about obeying Klaus Schwab's morality shows just why we 01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:36.800 need Christian men, just as those who erected St. 01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:39.600 Ambrose of Milan said, this is our guy. 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.720 He's not from the machine, but he's the one who is going 01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:45.760 to stop some of these abuses and be faithful. 01:12:46.400 --> 01:12:49.600 Christian men are the ones who make those decisions. 01:12:49.600 --> 01:12:55.360 You don't need the second tier synodical or denominational machinery to give 01:12:55.360 --> 01:12:58.880 blessing. The reason that that second tier matters, the reason that the 01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:03.440 denominations matter, is that by and large, that's where future pastors are 01:13:03.440 --> 01:13:04.240 going to come from. 01:13:04.240 --> 01:13:07.840 And most denominations, that's the way it works, because they're usually not 01:13:07.840 --> 01:13:10.080 raised up from the local congregation. 01:13:10.080 --> 01:13:13.440 And even in the denominations where the pattern is that they are 01:13:13.440 --> 01:13:16.320 raised up locally, they're generally sent away. 01:13:16.320 --> 01:13:18.880 And at this point a lot of the congregations are really too 01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:22.000 small to even have enough men for that to be a possibility. 01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:27.600 You need a certain size of population to even have a chance 01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:30.960 of having someone who's going to meet the criteria and then want 01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:32.400 to do it and be apt to do it. 01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:35.120 Like it's there are a lot of ifs before you get to 01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:38.080 the point where you can have your next elder, your next preaching 01:13:38.240 --> 01:13:41.920 pastor, the next guy who's going to be the one who does 01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:46.320 the things that God commands inside the congregation. 01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:50.240 And all the other things, we as laymen, we as Christian men, 01:13:50.240 --> 01:13:52.080 like it it's hard to get out of your head. 01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:53.760 I've almost said it a few times. 01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:55.040 We're Christian men. 01:13:55.040 --> 01:13:59.200 We're not a different kind of Christian than someone who is a 01:13:59.200 --> 01:14:03.760 cleric. A pastor who dedicates his life to that stuff should be 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:07.600 praised. He should be acknowledged as doing something that is good and 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:10.160 salutary. My dad's a pastor. 01:14:10.160 --> 01:14:12.000 I grew up with this stuff. 01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:15.120 He sacrificed his family for the church. 01:14:15.120 --> 01:14:16.800 And I don't begrudge any of it. 01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:17.520 It's hard. 01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:19.920 I can tell you, when you're a pastor's kid, when you're a 01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:25.280 pastor's family, it is you who are being ground up for the 01:14:25.280 --> 01:14:27.280 sake of the rest of the congregation. 01:14:27.280 --> 01:14:30.720 Because the pastor usually is gonna see the his congregation as his 01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:31.280 first duty. 01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:34.240 And a lot of times a family's gonna come second because you 01:14:34.240 --> 01:14:36.320 have their family, you love them and you hope things will pan 01:14:36.320 --> 01:14:40.160 out. And they're gonna forgive you certainly more than a congregation will. 01:14:40.160 --> 01:14:43.280 When a pastor has problems in a family and problems in his 01:14:43.280 --> 01:14:47.440 congregation, he would hope that the family's going to be more forgiving. 01:14:47.440 --> 01:14:50.080 The congregation is often just going to be brutal. 01:14:50.400 --> 01:14:52.960 it's a often a brutal and thankless job. 01:14:52.960 --> 01:14:55.440 I am in no way hostile to good pastors. 01:14:55.440 --> 01:14:59.840 There's no one who has higher regard for the sacrifices that they 01:14:59.840 --> 01:15:04.240 make and the contributions that they make to a godly Christian life. 01:15:04.240 --> 01:15:07.120 That doesn't mean that they have unlimited authority. 01:15:07.120 --> 01:15:10.000 We don't have fifty thousand popes. 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:12.080 That's not what's going on here. 01:15:12.080 --> 01:15:15.920 A man who's a pastor in a local congregation has duties blessed 01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:17.920 by God, and that's where they end. 01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:21.280 And the Christian life is 168 hours a week. 01:15:21.280 --> 01:15:24.320 We as Christian men live our lives in the community and there 01:15:24.320 --> 01:15:27.120 are many things that we say and we do and we believe 01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:30.640 and we act upon that they have no business telling us we 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:33.920 can't. That's the fundamental bottom line we want to get across in 01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:34.560 this episode. 01:15:34.560 --> 01:15:38.400 There are things your pastor cannot tell you you can't believe or 01:15:38.400 --> 01:15:39.600 think or do. 01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:42.400 Now, as I said at the beginning, this is not rebellion. 01:15:42.400 --> 01:15:43.440 This is not license. 01:15:43.440 --> 01:15:45.680 It's like, aha, I can just do whatever I want and my 01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:47.360 pastors just buzz off. 01:15:47.360 --> 01:15:50.160 No. The point is that the pastor should be on the same 01:15:50.160 --> 01:15:50.960 page as God. 01:15:50.960 --> 01:15:53.120 We should be on the same page as God. 01:15:53.120 --> 01:15:56.000 But when a Christian man is on the same page as God, 01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:00.800 it looks much bigger than what the pastor's narrowly circumscribed duties are. 01:16:01.120 --> 01:16:04.000 There's very limited amount of stuff a pastor can do. 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:05.600 We have to do everything. 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:09.280 And when the pastors are failing to do their jobs, we have 01:16:09.280 --> 01:16:10.960 to do some of their jobs too. 01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:14.240 Not in terms of usurping the actual preaching and the administration of 01:16:14.240 --> 01:16:16.880 the sacraments, but we have to make sure that someone is doing 01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:17.680 it faithfully. 01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:21.280 And if that means removing evil men, that's gonna have to be 01:16:21.280 --> 01:16:22.320 part of it. 01:16:22.320 --> 01:16:25.600 Sometimes you have to be the guy who's like, we need to 01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:28.560 get together and end what's going on here because it's bad for 01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:32.960 everyone. The Christians in the congregation have that authority. 01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:37.680 It's not held at the mythical corporate synotical or denominational level. 01:16:37.680 --> 01:16:39.040 Those things don't exist. 01:16:39.040 --> 01:16:42.880 Those are fictions that we opt into and historically they were done 01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:44.080 for the sake of good order. 01:16:44.080 --> 01:16:46.960 But the second that they are in opposition to good order, you 01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:48.960 are free to replace them entirely. 01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:52.000 And if they benefit co-opted in their weaknesses that they have that 01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:55.680 are actually doing harm, not only must you remove them, but you 01:16:55.680 --> 01:16:59.760 must make sure that those errors that their structure made possible can 01:16:59.760 --> 01:17:01.120 never be repeated. 01:17:01.120 --> 01:17:04.240 Because as we're trying to fix these things, it's not just getting 01:17:04.240 --> 01:17:05.280 it right in the moment. 01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:09.280 We're trying to rebuild something that's going to survive in future generations. 01:17:09.280 --> 01:17:13.360 And that means not being hasty, not being rebellious, but it also 01:17:13.360 --> 01:17:17.120 means looking in a very frank manner at the state of things 01:17:17.200 --> 01:17:20.720 and saying, we're not gonna do this again because we found when 01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:24.560 we tried this he had attracted the worst sort of men. 01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:26.000 There's a lot of that. 01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:28.960 There are a lot of men who are attracted to these offices 01:17:29.040 --> 01:17:34.960 because it's away for a weak and useless man to borrow credibility, 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:38.080 to borrow respect that he can never possibly earn in the real 01:17:38.080 --> 01:17:41.200 world. That's not what most guys are in for, but some are. 01:17:41.440 --> 01:17:44.400 A lot of guys become pastors because they genuinely want to share 01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:45.040 the gospel. 01:17:45.040 --> 01:17:47.840 Even if they have crap theology, even if I wouldn't like anything 01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:51.840 about them, I don't doubt that in many cases their desire to 01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:54.000 become a pastor was sincere. 01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:58.240 Unfortunately, if they're spiritually weak, Once they get into that position, it's 01:17:58.240 --> 01:17:59.600 gonna go off the rails. 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:03.040 And there's also a set of men who's very much attracted to 01:18:03.040 --> 01:18:07.840 the trappings because it lets them masquerade to something that they would 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:11.280 have never earned any respect in the world. 01:18:11.440 --> 01:18:13.920 They're not the sort of man that would ever command respect. 01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:16.640 And yet if they can put on a collar, it's given by 01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:19.360 default. And it's not a bad thing, it's give by default. 01:18:19.360 --> 01:18:22.160 You should as a member of a congregation, you should have respect 01:18:22.160 --> 01:18:23.040 for your pastor. 01:18:23.040 --> 01:18:26.080 Even if he's younger, even if he doesn't know as much, the 01:18:26.080 --> 01:18:28.800 office should have a certain amount of respect. 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:30.480 But the respect is for the office. 01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:33.040 And if a man doesn't live up to it, then you've done 01:18:33.040 --> 01:18:35.440 a poor job as selecting the man who's going to hold that 01:18:35.440 --> 01:18:39.120 office. So we as Christian men have to take stock of all 01:18:39.120 --> 01:18:41.920 this stuff and we have to be engaged in all of it. 01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:44.320 We don't get, as Corey said, we don't get to outsource and 01:18:44.320 --> 01:18:46.480 say, oh well the church guys are taking care of that. 01:18:46.480 --> 01:18:49.040 That's personally my mistake most of my life. 01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:52.400 I I have always been a Christian, but I was mostly checked 01:18:52.400 --> 01:18:57.040 out from paying attention because as a child who grew up seeing 01:18:57.040 --> 01:19:00.640 church politics being ugly, I want nothing to do with that. 01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:04.400 I don't need church to be another place where I see ugliness. 01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:06.800 And so when I was told, yeah, patriots are in control, we 01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:08.560 have the conservatives running things again. 01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:09.440 Like, great. 01:19:09.440 --> 01:19:11.040 God's taking care of the LCMS. 01:19:11.040 --> 01:19:11.520 I'm happy. 01:19:11.520 --> 01:19:13.360 I don't need to pay any attention at all. 01:19:13.360 --> 01:19:16.560 And so as soon as I look, you know, 25 years later, 01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:19.680 like, wow, this is not remotely the same religion that I was 01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:20.800 raised in. 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:25.680 And rather than wandering off in disgust, I said, you know what, 01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:27.200 this is still my church. 01:19:27.200 --> 01:19:28.640 This is still my problem. 01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:30.640 And I don't have to be a pastor to do something because 01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:32.400 I'm a Christian man. 01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:35.280 Well, the man that I spoke to when after I was doxxed 01:19:35.280 --> 01:19:39.200 and attacked, he laughed and joked and said, Clearly you're a cradle 01:19:39.360 --> 01:19:44.080 Lutheran, because no one who had adopted the faith, this denomination would 01:19:44.080 --> 01:19:46.960 ever stick with it after the crap that I was receiving. 01:19:46.960 --> 01:19:48.160 And he's like, he's right. 01:19:48.160 --> 01:19:50.880 If I had not been a cradle Lutheran, I would have if 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:54.240 I had converted so-called into this, I would have gone and found 01:19:54.240 --> 01:19:54.880 something else. 01:19:55.040 --> 01:19:59.520 Because the abuse, the nastiness would clearly turn me off and say, 01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:00.640 well, that's what it is. 01:20:00.640 --> 01:20:02.160 I want no part of it. 01:20:02.160 --> 01:20:05.920 The fact that I was raised as Lutheran when it was actually 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:09.520 Lutheran, and then I I checked back in like this isn't it 01:20:09.360 --> 01:20:12.240 anymore means I'm not gonna wander off. 01:20:12.240 --> 01:20:15.120 I know that the doctrine I was taught was sound. 01:20:15.120 --> 01:20:17.520 The application of it today is a problem. 01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:21.760 And so whatever context we're in as a Christian men, we have 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:24.880 to stick to our guns after we make sure that they're right. 01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:28.800 If you find that your doctrine or your beliefs or your behavior 01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:30.960 is an error, fix it. 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:32.640 That's the easiest thing in the world. 01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:35.920 As a Christian, no one has a better understanding than we do 01:20:36.160 --> 01:20:38.400 that we make mistakes, we get things wrong. 01:20:38.400 --> 01:20:41.600 Repentance is a part of the Christian ethos. 01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:42.640 It's part of our psyche. 01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:44.640 It's part of everything about what we do. 01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:46.320 I thought I was doing wrong thing. 01:20:46.320 --> 01:20:48.480 I realized I was doing something wrong. 01:20:48.480 --> 01:20:49.280 I repent. 01:20:49.280 --> 01:20:50.800 I turn away from it. 01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:54.400 When you have that attitude, it gets a lot easier to say, 01:20:54.400 --> 01:20:56.960 well, I thought I was doing something that was okay. 01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:58.480 I realized it was wrong. 01:20:58.480 --> 01:21:00.400 I'm gonna go the other direction. 01:21:00.400 --> 01:21:03.520 And you don't let it burden you, and you don't feel foolish. 01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:06.880 You thank God that you were straightened out somehow, whether you got 01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:11.280 smacked upside the side by some disaster in your life or someone 01:21:11.280 --> 01:21:14.960 chastised you and set you straight, whatever it was, it was God 01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:18.720 turning you around and giving you the ability to repent by putting 01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:20.560 the facts in front of you. 01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:22.960 It's a blessing we can do that for others, and it's a 01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:25.360 part of the Christian life to make sure that we're there to 01:21:25.360 --> 01:21:28.880 do it, and that we as Christian men are equipped to actually 01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:30.400 be able to make those arguments. 01:21:30.400 --> 01:21:34.080 Whether it's from scripture or it's from nature, you should always speak 01:21:34.080 --> 01:21:38.480 truthfully. And Christian men have a duty to speak truthfully on matters 01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:41.600 that, frankly, pastors are not permitted to speak on at 01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:42.240 all. 01:21:43.520 --> 01:21:43.760 On 01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:49.520 the topic of ecumenism, there will be some particularly Lutherans, perhaps, who 01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:54.880 will Who will be worried about the possibility of unionism? 01:21:54.880 --> 01:21:59.360 And for Lutherans and for the Reformed to some degree as well, 01:21:59.360 --> 01:22:03.680 of course, there's the specter of the Prussian Union. 01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:06.560 And we won't get into the details of that because it's not 01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:11.280 particularly relevant, but that's not at all what we are advocating. 01:22:11.280 --> 01:22:17.280 We are not advocating for restructuring the right hand kingdom, for joining 01:22:17.280 --> 01:22:24.080 all of the churches together and having one unified church. 01:22:24.080 --> 01:22:26.960 Because we don't agree on doctrine. 01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:29.760 Many of you listening are reformed. 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:31.200 We are not reformed. 01:22:31.200 --> 01:22:32.480 We are Lutheran. 01:22:32.480 --> 01:22:35.200 We disagree on a number of things. 01:22:35.200 --> 01:22:38.240 We disagree on some of the specifics of the sacrament. 01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:44.720 We disagree on predestination, certainly, we disagree on things, and so we 01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:50.320 cannot be in the same church body with regard to the second 01:22:50.320 --> 01:22:55.520 level or with regard to the third level insofar as membership at 01:22:55.520 --> 01:22:56.560 least goes. 01:22:56.560 --> 01:23:01.920 Not saying you can't attend a service at a non Lutheran church 01:23:01.920 --> 01:23:06.240 if you're Lutheran or a non-Reformed church if you are Reformed. 01:23:06.240 --> 01:23:07.680 That's a different matter. 01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:10.960 You couldn't be a member because you don't agree to the doctrine. 01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:14.640 For the sake of convenience and clarity, I think I'll just refer 01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:18.640 to the three levels whenever it comes up from here out as 01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:21.440 church, synod, and congregation. 01:23:21.440 --> 01:23:24.720 It's really the Lutheran term there for the second level, but it's 01:23:24.640 --> 01:23:29.760 clear enough, and all of you listening understand what we mean. 01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:34.560 What we are advocating, what we are advancing here, and going forward 01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:38.320 in a number of episodes in a sort of loose series 01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:45.280 is working together as Christian men across these denominational or traditional lines 01:23:45.360 --> 01:23:49.200 with regard to matters of the left hand kingdom. 01:23:49.200 --> 01:23:53.440 And in addition to working together with regard to matters of the 01:23:53.440 --> 01:23:59.440 left hand kingdom, not attacking one another on the basis of disagreements 01:23:59.440 --> 01:24:02.480 in the right-hand kingdom hand kingdom. 01:24:02.480 --> 01:24:04.960 Now I want to be very careful about what I am saying 01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:06.480 and what I am not saying. 01:24:06.480 --> 01:24:10.720 I am not saying we cannot continue to disagree, because of course, 01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:14.960 as a Lutheran, a large chunk of the Book of Concord is 01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:19.600 dedicated to condemning doctrines with which we disagree, which would be the 01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:26.720 Anabaptists and we don't distinguish Anabaptists and Baptists incidentally, the Anabaptists, Reformed, 01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:31.280 the Enthusiasts, which would basically be Pentecostals, and others. 01:24:31.280 --> 01:24:33.680 We're not going to abandon those positions. 01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:36.320 We still hold those things to be true. 01:24:36.320 --> 01:24:43.680 However, those disagreements, by and large, are left centuries ago. 01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.880 They're still live insofar as we still disagree. 01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:51.040 But the major fights over those, we've already argued these things to 01:24:51.040 --> 01:24:54.400 death. The lines are drawn where they're drawn. 01:24:54.400 --> 01:24:55.920 We disagree. 01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:59.440 There are some who will be convinced to one side or the 01:24:59.440 --> 01:25:03.520 other occasionally by reading scripture or reading the confessions. 01:25:03.520 --> 01:25:05.120 That's fine. 01:25:05.120 --> 01:25:12.080 We cannot permit those disagreements to stifle cooperation with regard to the 01:25:12.080 --> 01:25:14.000 left hand kingdom. 01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:18.800 Because the matters in the left hand kingdom are dire and urgent. 01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:19.920 We must work together 01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:26.560 as Christian men on any number of political and social and cultural 01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:33.680 issues. There is no one group that has the numbers, the clout, 01:25:33.680 --> 01:25:37.280 whatever it happens to be, whatever the resources or the attributes or 01:25:37.280 --> 01:25:41.840 the abilities happen to be, there is no one group that has 01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:47.680 them sufficiently in order to do it by themselves. 01:25:47.680 --> 01:25:52.240 It doesn't matter if it's the Baptists who have many members in 01:25:52.240 --> 01:25:56.320 the United States certainly, the Reformed assuming they can all work together 01:25:56.320 --> 01:26:01.200 across their various groups, the Lutherans, the Anglicans, there isn't a single 01:26:01.200 --> 01:26:04.480 group of us who can do this alone. 01:26:04.480 --> 01:26:07.760 We need to work together as Christian men. 01:26:07.760 --> 01:26:08.800 And that is a fundamental 01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:13.600 point that is worth repeating, perhaps almost to the point of ad 01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:19.840 nauseum. We are working together as Christian men, even if we disagree 01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:23.760 on some of the matters of the faith. 01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:26.880 We still hold that the Reformed are Christian. 01:26:26.880 --> 01:26:30.240 We still hold the Anglicans, of course there are some divisions there, 01:26:30.240 --> 01:26:34.480 as the Anglicans are well aware, but the good Anglicans are Christian. 01:26:35.280 --> 01:26:39.520 We still hold the Baptists, are Christian, in deep error from our 01:26:39.520 --> 01:26:46.240 perspective certainly, particularly with regard to endless irony but baptism. 01:26:46.240 --> 01:26:49.600 Just because we disagree on these matters with regard to the right 01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:54.240 hand kingdom, and just because they are incredibly important, because in some 01:26:54.240 --> 01:26:57.760 cases they are core parts of the faith, we believe the sacraments 01:26:57.760 --> 01:26:59.600 are a core part of the faith. 01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:02.160 This is what Scripture teaches, and we hold it. 01:27:02.160 --> 01:27:07.440 Just because we disagree on those things does not preclude cooperation with 01:27:07.440 --> 01:27:12.320 regard to matters in the left hand kingdom as Christian men. 01:27:12.320 --> 01:27:16.480 This isn't for pastors, because for pastors there is even more of 01:27:16.480 --> 01:27:18.800 a concern with regard to unionism. 01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:23.680 For instance, Lutheran pastors are not supposed to publicly pray, teach, or 01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:27.760 do anything of that sort with clergy from clergy from other denominations 01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:33.520 because it is seen as a tacit approval of that wrong doctrine. 01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:36.640 Christian men don't have that problem. 01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:39.760 If you're reformed, I can pray with you. 01:27:39.760 --> 01:27:43.120 I'm not going to affirm your teaching, certainly. 01:27:43.120 --> 01:27:45.840 I don't even really need to say it again, you know that. 01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:48.480 I know that you aren't going to affirm my teaching, and that's 01:27:48.480 --> 01:27:51.040 fine. I wouldn't expect you to do that. 01:27:51.040 --> 01:27:53.920 But as Christian men working together on issues of the left hand 01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:57.600 kingdom, that's not in view. 01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:02.240 Working together with you to ban abortion isn't saying that I approve 01:28:02.240 --> 01:28:04.240 of your conception of the sacrament. 01:28:04.240 --> 01:28:06.880 Only an insane person would think that. 01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:09.920 That's not at all what is being advanced. 01:28:09.920 --> 01:28:15.280 And we should not permit our disagreements with regard to doctrine or 01:28:15.280 --> 01:28:20.640 tradition or whatever it happens to be to preclude the necessary cooperation 01:28:21.200 --> 01:28:25.760 with regard to these political issues, because we are never going to 01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:32.320 have a restoration of a Christian society of Christendom without cooperation. 01:28:33.280 --> 01:28:40.400 Now ultimately, we will have to resolve our differences religiously in some 01:28:40.400 --> 01:28:45.760 way. That probably involves some kind of separation in the somewhat distant 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:52.080 future. But here and now, the most urgent issues are preserving the 01:28:52.080 --> 01:28:56.880 Christian faith, preserving the church in the decades ahead. 01:28:56.880 --> 01:29:00.240 Because if we are not the ones who stand up and do 01:29:00.240 --> 01:29:03.680 what needs to be done, no one will. 01:29:03.840 --> 01:29:06.160 There's no one coming to save us from this. 01:29:06.160 --> 01:29:10.960 There's no outside group that's going to come and restore Christianity If 01:29:10.960 --> 01:29:14.080 we allow it to die. 01:29:14.080 --> 01:29:17.360 That happened previously in history. 01:29:17.360 --> 01:29:24.800 God used Old Testament Israel to restore the Christian faith. 01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:28.720 There There is no group coming to save us if we permit 01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:31.760 the church to die. 01:29:31.760 --> 01:29:35.040 Because it's not going to be preserved in Africa. 01:29:35.040 --> 01:29:39.120 There are very few Christians there, regardless of what the numbers show. 01:29:39.280 --> 01:29:42.400 and most of the ones who are Christian more or less are 01:29:42.400 --> 01:29:44.960 syncretist in their practices. 01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:47.120 The syncretism will win out. 01:29:47.120 --> 01:29:51.280 They'll be pagan again, in a handful of generations. 01:29:51.280 --> 01:29:57.760 We are the only Christians left who can possibly restore what needs 01:29:57.760 --> 01:30:03.360 to be restored in order to have the foundation to rebuild Christendom. 01:30:03.360 --> 01:30:05.840 And so we must work together. 01:30:05.840 --> 01:30:07.920 We have no other choice. 01:30:07.920 --> 01:30:13.440 It doesn't matter even if you find it unpalatable working across denominational 01:30:13.600 --> 01:30:15.600 or traditional lines. 01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:17.600 Too bad, suck it up. 01:30:17.600 --> 01:30:24.080 As Christian men, our duty, first and foremost, is to Christ, is 01:30:24.080 --> 01:30:28.480 to the church, is to be faithful to our faith, is to 01:30:28.480 --> 01:30:30.960 be actual Christian men. 01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:35.200 And that is going to require us to behave as Christian men. 01:30:35.200 --> 01:30:38.800 And part of that, of course, is wisdom. 01:30:38.800 --> 01:30:41.680 Wisdom compels us to work together. 01:30:41.680 --> 01:30:44.960 We can maintain our differences, we can argue about them. 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:48.480 Go ahead and argue as much as you want over beers down 01:30:48.480 --> 01:30:50.960 at the pub. 01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:54.320 But we have to have a unified front with regard to the 01:30:54.320 --> 01:30:56.560 left hand kingdom. 01:30:56.880 --> 01:31:00.240 Because it is only in unity that we are going to be 01:31:00.240 --> 01:31:02.640 able to achieve anything. 01:31:02.640 --> 01:31:04.880 Diversity is not our strength. 01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:07.520 Diversity has never been a strength. 01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:09.600 Unity is strength. 01:31:09.600 --> 01:31:14.160 The Church has always been stronger when unified. 01:31:14.160 --> 01:31:17.840 And yes, today, unfortunately, we are not unified. 01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:21.760 We are with regard to doctrine, we're not going to be unified 01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:23.760 until Christ comes back. 01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:25.200 We all know that. 01:31:25.200 --> 01:31:28.960 We are not going to convince every single Christian man that this 01:31:28.960 --> 01:31:32.640 or that confession is absolutely correct. 01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:34.960 The divisions are necessary. 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:38.160 Because the divisions are how iron sharpens iron. 01:31:38.160 --> 01:31:40.240 You argue one thing, I argue another. 01:31:40.240 --> 01:31:43.520 We look at scripture and see what it says. 01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:47.120 But again that is a matter for the right hand kingdom. 01:31:47.360 --> 01:31:53.200 The left hand kingdom requires all Christian men to work together, because 01:31:53.200 --> 01:31:57.920 it is us versus them, and in this case, the them is 01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:00.000 Satan and his minions. 01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:04.720 And so the US must be Christian men as a unified front 01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:09.840 against the evils of the world, the flesh, and the devil. 01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:15.280 And so it's not unionism that we're advocating, it's unity. 01:32:15.280 --> 01:32:18.800 In the right hand kingdom it would be unionism, and we will 01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:20.560 never advocate that. 01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:24.400 But with regard to the left hand kingdom, it is unity and 01:32:24.400 --> 01:32:28.800 we will continue to advocate that because it is the only way 01:32:28.800 --> 01:32:29.760 forward.