WEBVTT 00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:39.440 Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:40.320 I am Cory J. 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:43.840 Mahler. And I'm woe. 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.760 He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be sins, 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:51.040 for unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices. 00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.880 It fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked, but the good 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.920 to do wrong. 00:00:56.080 --> 00:00:59.840 Saint John Chrysostom, Archbishop of CONSTANOPLE. 00:01:00.080 --> 00:01:02.800 That's a quote that we chose to open with, because it uh 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:05.840 puts in context both anger and hatred as 00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:11.680 aspects that are they're part of the Christian life that is seen 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:16.080 properly as almost always sinful and it's always something to be concerned 00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:20.720 about. Uh today's episode we're talking about perfect hatred, which is the 00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:24.640 the term that scripture uses for it, and we are talking about 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.520 anger and how we are supposed to deal with it. 00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:30.560 I want to make clear at the outset in in this preface 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:35.600 that this is not a continuation of the episode on lesser known 00:01:35.600 --> 00:01:39.680 doctrines uh like usury and head coverings and shaking the dust off 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.480 your feet. 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:44.160 We are not today talking about a doctrine of hatred. 00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:46.800 Uh in other words, this is not something that we are saying, 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:50.480 hey, the world needs more hatred and the church needs more hatred. 00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:54.000 What the reason that we're doing this episode in particular, the reason 00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:58.640 we're devoting an entire episode to the topic of perfect hatred is 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.640 that well I think everyone can agree that the world needs less 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.280 hatred and less anger. 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.600 The question that is vital to Christians today is whether the correct 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.200 amount of hatred is zero. 00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:16.880 And the scriptural answer to that question is no. 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:22.560 Uh hatred, perfect hatred is something that God commands, and it's something 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.120 that obviously makes us uncomfortable because that's seems contrary to many of 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:28.880 the things that are found in scripture. 00:02:28.880 --> 00:02:32.240 So day today we're going to be discussing the passages that deal 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.200 with love and condemn hate, and we're also going to be talking 00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:38.960 about the passages that deal with hate and advocate it and what 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.200 it means to advocate hate, because obviously that's sounds like a terrible 00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:47.040 thing. Uh something that Cory and I are routinely accused of, that 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:51.600 we are hateful men who hate races and hate people and hate 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:53.360 women and you know we we just hate everything. 00:02:53.600 --> 00:02:54.560 we're filled with hate. 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:57.360 And so I'm sure that there are people who will see the 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.320 subject of this episode and be filled with glee that, you know, 00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:03.840 we're going mask off when in fact, what we are trying to 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:09.120 get to is a clear way for all of us to look 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:13.680 at our own behavior, our own thoughts and our own emotions, and 00:03:14.160 --> 00:03:18.960 in a scriptural manner evaluate whether what we are feeling and saying 00:03:19.040 --> 00:03:24.000 and doing isn't in fact scriptural perfect hatred or if it's sinful 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.320 hatred. And the distinction between those two is is a vital one. 00:03:28.320 --> 00:03:32.880 And it's one that Christians must be able to d think about 00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:38.480 and discuss clearly because as we look at the world everything now 00:03:38.480 --> 00:03:40.240 is done in terms of love. 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:43.200 Yeah, ever since the sixties, when we had the Age of Aquarius 00:03:43.200 --> 00:03:47.120 begin, the dawning of the age of Aquarius, and the summer of 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.760 love, and the love fests, and everything since then really has been 00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:55.600 very overtly done in the name of love. 00:03:55.600 --> 00:04:00.400 Now, the abuse of that term is clearly satanic if you're Christian. 00:04:00.720 --> 00:04:03.920 if you look at what the boomers were doing in the sixties 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:09.520 and the natural consequences of that today, with what we see we've 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.200 discussed many times in previous episodes, things that are done in the 00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:16.080 name of love are overt evil. 00:04:16.080 --> 00:04:17.200 They're horrifying. 00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:18.240 They're disgusting. 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.440 And yet we're told that those things are love and we're told 00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:22.800 to love them. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:28.160 And the subject of this episode is is it Christian to hate 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:31.840 period? Is it is it Christian to be able to hate? 00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:36.880 And if so, what things are Christians permitted to hate? 00:04:36.880 --> 00:04:38.400 So that's where we're gonna begin. 00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:39.040 And 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.960 so of course the short version of what we are as Christians 00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:46.800 to love and what we are as Christians to hate is that 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.760 we are to love the things that God loves, the things that 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:53.120 are good, and to hate the things that God hates, the things 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:54.880 that are evil. 00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:55.680 And these are not 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.040 two terms that we can just ignore in Scripture. 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.520 Obviously no Christian is going to say we can ignore the word 00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:03.680 love, one one would hope anyway. 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.720 The Greek word of course being agape is the word we're talking 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:07.680 about here. 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:12.080 That word appears many times in scripture, appears one hundred and fifteen 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.840 times in the New Testament, fifteen times in the Septuagint, because of 00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:18.160 course it's not going to appear in the Hebrew since it is 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:19.280 a Greek word. 00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:23.520 Agapa, the verbal form appears even more one hundred and forty three 00:05:23.520 --> 00:05:27.040 times in the New Testament, two hundred and thirteen in the Septuagint. 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:29.280 Seems like quite a lot. 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:33.440 But if you actually look then at the terms for hate and 00:05:33.440 --> 00:05:35.760 related terms, they are actually more frequent 00:05:36.640 --> 00:05:39.360 in Scripture than the word love. 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:43.040 Meseo is to hate in Greek, forty times in the New Testament, 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.800 one hundred and forty three in the Old Testament. 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:51.440 And then another one that is important is extras, is hostile, also 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.000 enmity or hate, thirty-two times in the New Testament, three hundred and 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:59.440 twenty times in the Septuagint. 00:05:59.840 --> 00:06:04.400 The concept of hate and enmity is not something that is infrequent 00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:06.560 in scripture, appears only in a few places. 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.600 It appears throughout scripture from the beginning to the end, from Genesis 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:12.640 to Revelation. 00:06:12.640 --> 00:06:15.600 So this is not something that we can neglect as Christians. 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.520 We need to understand what these things are, how they relate to 00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:23.120 each other, and what we are supposed to do with them as 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:27.120 Christians. In short, love and hatred 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.000 are really opposite sides of the same coin. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.920 To love something is also to hate that which would destroy what 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.960 you love. 00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:39.200 And so God loves us. 00:06:39.200 --> 00:06:41.360 God loves his sheep. 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.480 Well, he hates the wolves because the wolves want to destroy the 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:45.440 thing he loves. 00:06:45.440 --> 00:06:47.440 He they want to destroy the sheep. 00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:50.800 That is the same that a father would do with relation to 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:51.680 his family. 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.840 A father who loves his wife and his children will hate those 00:06:55.840 --> 00:06:58.080 who would cause them harm. 00:06:58.080 --> 00:07:01.840 That is a perfect hatred, because you are hating evil. 00:07:01.840 --> 00:07:06.080 When Scripture speaks of loving your enemy, and of course that is 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.160 going to come up, that does not mean that you permit the 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:13.200 enemy to destroy the things that it is your duty to protect 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:14.320 and love. 00:07:14.320 --> 00:07:15.920 It is not love 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.240 when you permit your family to whom you owe a higher duty 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:22.160 to be destroyed by your enemy. 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:23.920 You still owe duties there. 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.560 You are not to hate your enemy in the sense of a 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.360 mindless zeal to destroy your enemy. 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.880 This is not a vengeance we're speaking of, but you can still 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:36.640 oppose your enemy. 00:07:36.640 --> 00:07:38.800 You can still oppose the enemies of your nation. 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.560 You can oppose those who want to destroy your family. 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.120 In fact, it is your Christian duty to do so. 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.240 So this is not a a simple or straightforward thing. 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:46.720 You have to understand 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:52.400 deeply what these terms mean and what duties flow from them. 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:55.920 And I think the first term that we need to properly understand 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.000 is evil. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.120 what actually is evil? 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:06.320 Uh fundamentally, this episode is a question about God's nature and about 00:08:06.320 --> 00:08:11.040 the things that are fruit of the Holy Spirit. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:17.440 When Adam sinned in the garden, he introduced evil into creation as 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:20.960 the as the head of creation ordained by God to be over 00:08:20.960 --> 00:08:25.120 it. The universe fell when Adam fell. 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:25.440 And 00:08:26.880 --> 00:08:29.280 I think that when we look 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.520 we call God Father because that is the name that He has 00:08:33.520 --> 00:08:36.240 given himself and that is His relationship to us. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.760 And so And so we we think imperfectly in terms of our 00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:43.840 own fathers being disappointed or angry when we misbehave. 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:49.120 And you think of it in chronological terms, that the child does 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:54.160 something wicked, does something wrong against the rules, and the father responds 00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:59.600 by anger, by punishment of some sort, and you know, then ideally 00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:01.920 some form of reconciliation. 00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:05.440 While some of that applies when we're dealing with God, it's not 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.200 really the beginning of 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:10.800 the understanding of what's actually going on. 00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:15.600 Because what truly happened when Adam disobeyed God in the garden, by 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:18.800 listening to his wife rather than listening to God, and then by 00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:21.680 taking the fruit that had been forbidden to him, that had been 00:09:21.680 --> 00:09:24.800 an abomination to him according to God's law. 00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:27.040 Adam made himself God. 00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:30.480 He said, God, I know you told me to do one thing. 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:31.920 I have a better idea. 00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:33.280 I'm gonna do something else. 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:34.880 I am going to be my God. 00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:37.760 You might be my creator, but you're no longer my God. 00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:41.200 At least in this one moment, I'm gonna do my thing. 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.440 That That was evil. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.880 Now, was it evil because it was on one side of an 00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:50.240 arbitrary line that God drew in the sand? 00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:53.200 I don't think that's the way we can think about this. 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:57.280 I think that a proper understanding of evil and frankly, a proper 00:09:57.280 --> 00:10:02.640 understanding of God's law, or God's eternal will, is that whatever is 00:10:02.640 --> 00:10:07.520 good is according to God's will, and therefore whatever whatever is evil 00:10:07.760 --> 00:10:11.120 is contrary to God's eternal will. 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:14.720 On the sixth day of creation before God rested, he saw that 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.080 it was very good. 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.400 Now very good when that was said in Genesis two 2 isn't 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:23.600 referring to, well, pretty good, very good, short of perfect. 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:27.040 No. It was absolutely perfect and it was complete. 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:30.160 The other days of creation were also good and that there was 00:10:30.160 --> 00:10:32.960 no defect in them, but they were not complete. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:37.120 When God declared creation to be very good, he declared it to 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:39.760 be complete and to be perfect. 00:10:39.760 --> 00:10:43.120 And that means that it was in accord with his will. 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.640 You know, we we have a small concept of this as humans 00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:49.360 where you know you may see someone or maybe if you have 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.360 the gift you make a painting or you m create a song 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:57.520 and you keep working on it until it's finished and then you 00:10:57.520 --> 00:10:59.520 step back and you say, Yeah, that's it. 00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:00.400 I nailed it. 00:11:00.400 --> 00:11:02.720 Everything is there that I want to be there. 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:04.960 There's nothing there that I don't want to be there. 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.360 You say that your creation is very good. 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:10.560 God did that with the entire universe, and that meant that everything 00:11:10.560 --> 00:11:13.280 that was there is exactly what he wanted. 00:11:13.280 --> 00:11:17.520 When Adam introduced evil into the world, he acted in a way 00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:20.320 that was contrary to God's nature. 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.600 In other words, the thing that Adam had become was opposite of 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.040 what God wanted. 00:11:27.040 --> 00:11:31.440 And so the root of hatred as we're talking about it today 00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:34.240 is fundamentally not an emotional one. 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.880 I think that's one of the most important things that we need 00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:38.160 to get across. 00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:40.880 Hatred and anger are 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:46.480 in one sense and in some cases they are emotions, but that's 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.240 not all that they are. 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.800 When God says that he hates evil, he's not talking about being 00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:59.280 emotional. God is talking about his relationship to that which is contrary 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:00.640 to his will. 00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:04.160 The reason that you and I will die is because we are 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:07.520 born with sin that is contrary to God's will. 00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:10.720 And the only way that that can be rectified is both through 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:14.400 our death and through Christ's death, covering us in his blood, so 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:16.480 that our sins are atoned for. 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:17.680 That is how God restores 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:23.840 the evil that we have to a goodness that He can welcome. 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:25.760 And so that's not emotion. 00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:29.680 You know, when when God loves us, in one sense it is 00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:33.680 emotion, but it is it is more properly understood as the thing 00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:38.400 which God desires us to be, his persect perfect creation, that is 00:12:38.400 --> 00:12:40.000 in accord with his will. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.760 And the thing that he hates about us is the sin that 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:47.120 is preventing us from being in accord with His will. 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:53.200 So for God, love and hatred are first and foremost two sides, 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:58.160 as Corey said, of the coin of is this in alignment with 00:12:58.160 --> 00:13:00.160 God's will or is it contrary to it? 00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:04.000 And if it's contrary to it, then from God's perspective and from 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:09.600 the perspective downstream as with us as Christians, to hate that which 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.920 is evil is in accord with God's will, not as an act 00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:18.880 or as an upwelling of emotion, but because whatever is contrary to 00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:19.200 God 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:21.280 should not be. 00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:22.400 It shouldn't exist. 00:13:22.640 --> 00:13:26.880 And we are forbidden as Christians to embrace or to tolerate or 00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:30.480 to welcome that which is contrary to God's will will. 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:35.120 That's fundamentally embracing evil on its face. 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.240 Now, there are things to be said about how you handle that 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:43.200 in the Christian life, but fundamentally to say, yes, I will love 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.960 evil is to reject God, because it is to say I am 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.560 going to embrace that which is contrary to God's eternal will. 00:13:50.560 --> 00:13:54.640 And the only solution for that is God's eternal damnation. 00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:58.400 So it's really important that we understand and we get this right 00:13:58.720 --> 00:13:59.520 because there's 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.840 no middle ground for understanding mistakes. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:04.480 And 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.840 when it comes to love and hate in the the modern context, 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.160 this gets more into love. 00:14:10.160 --> 00:14:12.880 I've been working on some things related to that. 00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:14.800 Hopefully I'll publish something soon on it. 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:19.280 But love in the modern sense, in the modern world, has come 00:14:19.280 --> 00:14:20.720 to mean permissiveness. 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:25.520 And in reality this is a direct inversion, because that's what Satan 00:14:25.520 --> 00:14:29.360 does. Satan takes the good for evil and the evil for good. 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.120 There is a verse directly that speaks to that, of course. 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.200 And if you take love to mean permissiveness, what you are really 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.560 doing is you are showing hatred for that person. 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:44.800 Because that which is good is that which is in align with 00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:47.280 God's will for you. 00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.680 That means it's good for you. 00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.400 And of course, God's will flows from his nature, so you can 00:14:52.400 --> 00:14:53.760 speak of it neither way you can. 00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:56.800 You can say it's in align alignment with God's nature or his 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:02.320 will. Permissiveness is saying that it is fine to act contrary to 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:07.200 God's will, and it is love to let that person do what 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:07.840 he wants to do. 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.520 And that's not love. 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:13.120 That is indifference, that is actual hatred. 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.720 There is no more vile thing you can do with regard to 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:22.240 another person than be indifferent to him To him risking his eternal 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.240 soul by acting contrary to God's will. 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:26.720 And so 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.640 a good illustration of that would be 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.160 let's say we're standing in a room together, and you say that 00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:39.120 you're going to go down the hall to another room. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.240 If I say 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.040 don't do that because I know there's a bear in that room, 00:15:45.040 --> 00:15:48.800 I'm demonstrating love for you because I'm demonstrating care. 00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:52.880 If on the other hand, I say nothing, or you know, have 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:56.480 fun, I'm demonstrating hatred for you because I know that you are 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.640 going to be harmed and I'm not And I'm allowing that to 00:15:58.640 --> 00:15:59.840 come to pass. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.320 Now of course that's an extreme option, and I hope you don't 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.320 have a bear in your house. 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:08.080 But we see this all the time in society because we see 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.840 people who engage in incredibly destructive behavior. 00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:15.360 And we are told that it's loving to let them do that. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.920 And so those who engage in transgenderism or homosexuality were told that 00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:23.120 we have to tolerate that, we have to permit that, because it's 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:24.320 actually loving to permit it. 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:25.600 And no, it's the exact opposite. 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.240 It is hateful to permit that. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:33.600 The loving option is to rebuke them with God's law, because that 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.360 gives the opportunity for the spirit to come in and actually potentially 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.280 change something in that person's life. 00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:44.240 If you speak the words of God to that person the truth, 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.400 instead of just letting them go on their way, you are demonstrating 00:16:48.400 --> 00:16:50.800 love. And that's the point. 00:16:50.800 --> 00:16:52.400 Love is not permissiveness. 00:16:52.400 --> 00:16:55.200 These are two totally different concepts. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.280 Love in fact rebukes. 00:16:57.280 --> 00:16:59.360 Love in fact corrects. 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:04.400 Love speaks the law to people because love actually wants what is 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.800 ultimately good, not what is temporarily pleasurable or enjoyable. 00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:10.480 These are different things. 00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:13.680 There gonna be a couple papers that we'll have in the show 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.240 notes that I I hope people will click on. 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:20.960 One of them is uh the fairly short document by Professor Mark 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:26.480 Quart, who's now sainted on uh Christian disputes and how to handle 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.720 them. And one of the points that he makes in that paper 00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:34.160 very well is that there's a sense really j only in the 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:39.760 last century in Christianity, or so called Christianity, including among Lutherans, where 00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:45.760 we are told Of the law of love, where we're we're sold 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:51.520 things in terms of this permissiveness and this license, and love is 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:54.160 held up as the highest good. 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:54.800 Now 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.520 there There's a switcheroo that's going on there because we all know, 00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:02.160 of course, that God is love, but 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:07.120 the c the flip side of that is not necessarily true. 00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:09.040 Love is not God. 00:18:09.040 --> 00:18:13.600 God God to speak in imperfect human terms is many things. 00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:15.280 Now obviously God is only one thing. 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:19.520 It's when we're dealing with God's nature, it's it's fundamentally impossible to 00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:22.240 speak with absolute precision because we can't understand. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.320 We can't fit God in our head. 00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:28.640 So it's uh sometimes you'll hear Cory and I kind of choosing 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.000 our ver words very carefully or doubling back and it's it's not 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.880 uncertainty, it's that it's very easy to say things that either are 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:42.640 heretical or will strongly suggest heresies downstream if you follow a claim 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.320 to its natural conclusion. 00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:49.200 So God is love, but God is also hate. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.080 Because again, these are not emotions. 00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:54.480 I think that's one of the most crucial things. 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.400 I a couple episodes ago, I I made a not an offhand 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.480 comment, but a brief comment where I said something to the effect 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.840 that if I talk to someone on Twitter, my chief concern is 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:08.160 that they understand with clarity what I mean and I said I 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.000 don't care how they feel about it. 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.800 I basically said I I more or less disregard their emotions and 00:19:12.800 --> 00:19:15.360 I didn't clarify at the time and when I was re-listening I 00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:18.080 realized that would sound kinda horrible to most people. 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:22.560 Um for one thing, I feel the same way about myself. 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:24.800 I don't care about my emotions. 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.720 Because in my mind, and I know this is gonna sound heartless. 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.960 I hope that I can explain myself well. 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:39.120 For me to feel something in response to a fact, I don't 00:19:39.040 --> 00:19:42.320 consider that to have any information payload. 00:19:42.320 --> 00:19:45.440 It's like if I stub my toe in the dark on the 00:19:45.600 --> 00:19:48.640 the nightstand or something, it hurts. 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:49.840 It hurts a lot. 00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:51.360 I might cry out. 00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:52.800 It's momentary. 00:19:52.800 --> 00:19:56.080 The fact The fact that I'm feeling pain in that moment tells 00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:58.720 me that I stub my toe, and it's part of stubbing my 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.800 toe. And so the fact of the toe being stubbed is the 00:20:02.800 --> 00:20:05.520 part of that whole scene that has information. 00:20:05.520 --> 00:20:09.520 The fact that I hurt and that I cry out, it's not 00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:10.720 a salient fact to me. 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:11.680 it's momentary. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:12.880 It's a blip. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.840 And so for me, emotions are it's like that or it's like 00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:18.800 like gas pains. 00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:22.640 Like you're you're bloated and it's uncomfortable and you can feel something 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.560 moving inside you and it hurts and it's an ugly reminder that 00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:31.120 you're not a solid hunk of muscle, that there's actually stuff in 00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:33.760 there that we don't like to think about. 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:36.320 But when it hurts, you think about it. 00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:38.880 And it it feels it's unnatural. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.240 Well, it is natural, but it's unpleasant to be feeling a thing 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:43.840 that you don't normally feel. 00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:48.640 And so for me, processing of emotions is a it's a temporary 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.360 thing, but I don't derive knowledge from it. 00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:54.000 Yeah, I've and on previous episodes there have been several times where 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.920 I've mentioned stories where someone said something to me that I took 00:20:57.920 --> 00:20:59.280 a lesson from. 00:20:59.280 --> 00:21:03.840 I think that some people, if you're used to processing your life 00:21:03.840 --> 00:21:08.000 in terms of your emotions over the facts, you might hear that 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.200 and think, oh well, he's mad because someone said something mean about 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.680 him. And I try to make the point, like, I don't care. 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.000 Like it was I I yes, I was mad. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.880 It was momentary. 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:17.840 I stubbed my toe. 00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:18.800 I got over it. 00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:22.080 But I remember where the nightstand is even in dark. 00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:26.160 And so that's what to me, and I I'm weird. 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:27.360 I'm a weird man. 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:30.320 I don't I wouldn't advocate that everyone be like this, but I 00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:32.720 do think it's important to understand that there's 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.560 there's something that's happened in the church as we've become increasingly feminized. 00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:43.600 The more and more the feelings and the emotions that people have 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:47.680 in the moment when something is being discussed or something is being 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:53.520 debated, the feelings are seen as the facts somehow, which is not 00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:54.960 remotely the case. 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:56.960 That it's the exact opposite. 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.560 We should try to respect each other's emotions, and I do. 00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:04.240 I I I am far more cognizant and respectful of other people's 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.000 emotions than I am of my own. 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.000 I'm utterly ruthless towards myself. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.800 I would I'd been killed a hundred times over if I treated 00:22:10.800 --> 00:22:13.360 others the way I treat myself internally. 00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:17.920 And it's not self-loathing, it's just I I'm going to try to 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:20.880 be the best that I can be, and that's gonna hurt sometimes, 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.320 and I'm okay with that. 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:25.760 So anyway, the point that Mark War makes in his paper is 00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:32.880 that there's there's increasingly this feminized notion of making love God. 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.200 And I hope that's coming through clearly. 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:36.640 Love is being treated. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:42.160 Love as a concept now separate from God is being treated as 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:43.920 though it is God. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.200 And very often in these conversations that we see in the church 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.880 and in the world where we as Christians are interacting with others, 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.640 love is treated as the God, not God, not the God who 00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:00.240 hates evil, not the God who hates those who persecute his saints, 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.360 but just love is this its own thing. 00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:08.080 And so this god that emerged in the sixties is named Love. 00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:10.480 And it's a it's a name of a God that you hear 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.440 all the time. 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.760 And as Christians we've fallen for it because who doesn't want love? 00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:18.880 Everyone wants to feel loved, wants to enjoy that. 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.680 Hatred shouldn't exist. 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.000 I think that's one of the important parts of this. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.240 The fact that there is any hatred, beginning with God's hatred, means 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.440 that there are things that are contrary to God's will. 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:36.080 And after judgment day, there will be no more hatred because everything 00:23:36.080 --> 00:23:39.680 will finally be in perfect accord with God's will as it has 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.640 not been since the seventh day of creation. 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.960 And so it's a vital subject for us to understand that 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:54.000 if we're serving love and not serving God, we're serving a demon, 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.080 we're serving a false God, even if it's a demon named love, 00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:01.760 and even if the things look and sound loving, if you are 00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:05.600 acting contrary to God's nature, you're doing evil. 00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:08.400 And that's a it's a really hard part of dealing with the 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.560 subject because it's a lot easier easier to be tolerant, to be 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:16.160 permissive, to give license to things, because you don't have to fight 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.760 back. You don't have to say anything. 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:19.520 You just let it slide. 00:24:19.520 --> 00:24:21.840 You cross to the other side of the street, you look the 00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:23.760 other way, and you let it go. 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:25.680 That's the easy choice. 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.440 And so Satan's convinced us, well that's the loving choice. 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:34.480 And it's important for us to understand that just because something is 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.520 called love doesn't mean it's from God. 00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:40.800 There some things that are love or some from God. 00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:42.560 All true love is from God. 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:47.280 But there are today false things masquerading as love that we're told 00:24:47.280 --> 00:24:50.320 come from God where that's not remotely the case. 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:50.640 Well 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.080 you've touched on the the genealogy of these ideas, and of course 00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:56.640 we went over that in an earlier episode. 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.480 But you can also look at the fruits of these things, because 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.760 a tree is known by its fruit, and if you take the 00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:09.040 permissiveness that masquerades is love today, and look at the fruit it 00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:12.800 has yielded over a course of decades, it's very obvious it's not 00:25:12.800 --> 00:25:13.280 from God. 00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:16.720 That which is from God yields good fruit. 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:22.160 That which has come from this perverted sense of love is wicked 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:23.600 and poisonous fruit. 00:25:23.600 --> 00:25:27.440 And you see that, and homosexuality is one of the best examples 00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:30.720 because we are told that we have to tolerate this, that we 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.840 have to permit this, that we have to let them live their 00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:37.120 life their lives as they see fit, and we will live our 00:25:37.120 --> 00:25:40.080 lives as we see fit, and that is not love. 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:43.600 That is hatred for your fellow man, because you are permitting them 00:25:43.600 --> 00:25:46.240 to merrily dance their way into hell. 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:49.760 And just look at the way they live their lives and the 00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:51.280 consequences of that lifestyle. 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:54.960 We're not going to go into the details because we well, we 00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:57.120 don't want to get a strike, we want to try to keep 00:25:57.120 --> 00:26:01.040 this at a level where people can listen to it after lunch. 00:26:01.040 --> 00:26:01.360 But 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.280 the consequences for those who are living in that world are dire 00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:10.880 in in this life and worse in the next, and it is 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.080 not love to permit them to do that. 00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:18.240 And when it comes to being comfortable and just permitting others to 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.600 do as they please, you can look at this and you see 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:23.280 this in our own churches. 00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:27.280 How many pastors preach against obesity? 00:26:27.280 --> 00:26:31.280 How many pastors preach from the pulpit against 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:38.640 fornication, against homosexuality, against any of a number of the very common, 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.120 very widespread sins in our society. 00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:43.840 Obesity is probably one of the best examples because I have never 00:26:43.840 --> 00:26:46.720 actually heard a pastor preach against it. 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.720 This despite the fact that it is rampant in our society. 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.520 And they don't speak against it because it makes them uncomfortable to 00:26:53.520 --> 00:26:56.800 say it, and they know they will be hated by others if 00:26:56.800 --> 00:26:57.920 they say it. 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.360 But scripture is very clear, and you will be hated by all 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:03.600 for my name's sake. 00:27:03.600 --> 00:27:05.920 That means you will be hated when you speak the truth. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:09.520 You will be hated when you preach truth to people. 00:27:09.520 --> 00:27:11.040 And you're doing it, of course, in love. 00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:12.480 You're not doing it in hatred, but they will hate you 00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:14.880 in return for that. 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.160 Their hatred, of course, is wicked because they are hating the good. 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.360 And so it is possible to have hatred that is righteous, it 00:27:21.360 --> 00:27:24.000 is possible to have hatred that is wicked. 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:27.440 And in the case of those who react with hatred against that 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.400 which is good, that is a wicked hatred. 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.080 As opposed to, for instance, in Hebrews, quoting the Old Testament, of 00:27:34.080 --> 00:27:36.880 course, but of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.000 forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.440 kingdom, you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.600 That's a perfect love and a perfect hatred, and the object of 00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:54.720 both of those is important to note loved righteousness, hated wickedness. 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.680 That's perfect love, and that's perfect hatred. 00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.520 And that is what a Christian is supposed to have. 00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:02.640 We are supposed to imitate Christ, and of course that is speaking 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.960 of Christ, that verse in Hebrews citing the Old Testament. 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.880 You had mentioned preaching, and it's that's something that we were discussing 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.280 before we began recording this, as we're talking about some of Chrysostom's 00:28:15.280 --> 00:28:17.040 uh his own preaching. 00:28:17.040 --> 00:28:21.920 He's famous for preaching against drunkenness and against uh chariot races, because 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.640 those were the great debauched sins that were occurring in his own 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:31.920 parish. The people to whom he was preaching were engaging in public 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.760 sin that was grievous. 00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:37.520 They were they were living pagan lives and then coming to church. 00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:41.040 And so when they came to church, he rightly, as a faithful 00:28:41.040 --> 00:28:43.920 peacher, condemned their sins. 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:47.920 He didn't condemn far off far off hypothetical sins. 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.680 He condemned the sins of the people in his pews, or I 00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:54.560 don't know maybe they were standing up, but the people before him, 00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:56.320 he addressed their sin. 00:28:56.320 --> 00:29:00.960 And so this this fear of well, I must serve love and 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.960 so I cannot speak truthfully, which just on its face should should 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.840 make your skin crawl, because that that's clearly cannot be coming from 00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:12.720 God. Um, it's not just about dealing with the world. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.400 It's very prevalent when we're dealing with disputes about doctrine in our 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.120 own churches, uh, from the Walther or from the the Marquard paper, 00:29:23.120 --> 00:29:26.480 there's a brief Walther quote that I'd like to give here. 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:31.200 Walther says it has always been not so much the pure doctrine 00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.920 per se, which has aroused hostility against its representatives, much less is 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:40.240 that the case in our indifferent age, but taking it seriously, the 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:45.120 exclusive adherence to it, the rejection and condemnation of the opposite doctrine, 00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:50.720 and above all the practical implementation of this doctrinal position, that is 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:55.840 was which at all times provoked hostility, so also the Cardinal of 00:29:55.840 --> 00:30:00.720 Salzburg said that Luther's doctrine he would tolerate, but to allow one's 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.000 self to be reformed out of a corner, that was not to 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.120 be tolerated. 00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:06.560 So it still is today. 00:30:06.560 --> 00:30:10.800 What doctrine isn't one prepared to tolerate nowadays, if only it will 00:30:10.800 --> 00:30:15.120 stand peacefully beside the other doctrine, and just those who want to 00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:19.600 be orthodox accomplish the most incredible fears in this tolerance. 00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:24.800 Only observe the harmonious relation which shows itself in the academic colleges, 00:30:24.800 --> 00:30:29.920 the peaceable sitting together in pastoral conferences, the tone in the reviews. 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:34.000 So Walther was seeing this, you know, 175 years ago, that men 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:39.440 would tolerate evil, they would they would tolerate violating the second commandment 00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:42.800 and lying about God as long as it meant that we could 00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:46.960 sit side by side pretending to be brothers. 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.560 And the the brother and neighbor distinction we've talked about a little 00:30:50.560 --> 00:30:55.040 bit before and the matter of polarity when you're looking at scripture, 00:30:55.040 --> 00:30:58.400 I think is important to address here again. 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:03.040 There are many times in Jesus' own direct preaching where he admonishes 00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:05.200 not hating your brother. 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.560 We have two brothers. 00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:12.640 We have brothers according to the flesh, and we have brothers according 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.560 to the spirit. 00:31:14.560 --> 00:31:18.560 There are also those who are not your brothers in either. 00:31:18.560 --> 00:31:22.800 And in almost every case, when Jesus is speaking of our brothers, 00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:24.400 he is speaking in the flesh. 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:28.240 In order word, in other words, Jesus is speaking about our brothers 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.840 inside the church. 00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:34.160 Those are brothers who are brothers because they have also been adopted 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:38.960 through baptism into God's family, not as natural sons of God, but 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.720 as adopted sons of God. 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.720 And so you and I are brothers because God has given 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:50.160 us faith and made us his own, not through anything in ourselves, 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.560 but solely through his action. 00:31:52.560 --> 00:31:57.280 And so many of the admonitions that are addressing hatred and anger 00:31:57.280 --> 00:32:03.600 and dissension and rivalries, they speak specifically in the context of brothers. 00:32:03.600 --> 00:32:07.120 Now, this is a distinction that is lost on us today because 00:32:07.280 --> 00:32:09.280 we don't care what brother means anymore. 00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:13.920 We're told the Babel brotherhood of man means every human being. 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.680 That every every time you meet someone, it's a Noah family reunion, 00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.120 and so we're all brothers. 00:32:19.120 --> 00:32:22.480 Well, that's simply not true. 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.640 If someone is within the church, one set of rules applies. 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:30.480 If someone is not in the church, another set of rules apply. 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.760 Now they're very similar. 00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:34.160 We're not saying that you can hate anyone who's not within the 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.040 church. That's That's absolutely not what Jesus says. 00:32:37.040 --> 00:32:43.120 However, the specific admonitions regarding dissension and anger and strife and hatred 00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:48.880 have to do with those who are also sanctified by Christ's blood 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.200 and who confess it. 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:56.000 And so when we just say, well, those passages apply universally to 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.040 all people, we're losing what God is actually saying. 00:32:59.040 --> 00:33:01.440 There are other places where he deals with that. 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.040 But it's important, just as I I took a shot at uh 00:33:05.360 --> 00:33:09.680 Mr. Rogers a few weeks ago because he collapsed neighbor into being 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:14.080 a universal, that anyone could be your main your neighbor if you 00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:14.960 like them. 00:33:15.280 --> 00:33:17.120 We're told the same thing about brother. 00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:19.200 Anyone is your brother if you like them, right? 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.960 And you're supposed to like everyone. 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.120 So that makes everyone your brother. 00:33:23.120 --> 00:33:27.920 Well, that's not what God says, as not what that word means. 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.920 And so as you're looking at the various verses dealing with love 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.200 and with hatred, we are to love all men because all men 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.440 are created in the image of God and are descended from Adam. 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.120 However, that is not necessarily and it is not in fact the 00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:46.320 same love that we have within the body of Christ. 00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:50.400 The love that I have for Cory as a brother is different 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.360 than the love that I am to have for a random human 00:33:53.360 --> 00:33:56.320 being halfway around the world. 00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.520 When that person on the other side of the world somehow becomes 00:33:59.520 --> 00:34:02.320 my neighbor, I am to love them as I love myself and 00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:04.880 that if they're hungry, I would feed them just as I would 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:06.160 feed myself. 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.640 And that is a a type of love, but it is not 00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:12.000 the fullness of love, such as you would find within your own 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.880 family. There are things that you will do for a a mother 00:34:15.040 --> 00:34:18.080 or a wife or a son that you won't do for a 00:34:18.080 --> 00:34:19.840 stranger. And that's godly. 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.040 And I think one of the dangers that we lose when we 00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:29.280 collapse neighbor well, we expand neighbor and brother into being universal platitudes, 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.920 we lose the distinctives that God has given us to address those 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.760 specifically within our sphere. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.160 To get back to what Corey was saying at the very beginning, 00:34:38.160 --> 00:34:42.160 we have offices in our lives to deal with certain people in 00:34:42.160 --> 00:34:43.280 certain ways. 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.720 And that should always be done from a place of love, but 00:34:46.720 --> 00:34:51.520 that love sometimes requires things that to the world don't look like 00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:55.600 love. if a home invader breaks into your home at three in 00:34:55.600 --> 00:34:58.640 the morning, you use violence against him. 00:34:58.640 --> 00:35:01.280 You don't take it as an opportunity to spread the gospel to 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:02.800 someone who clearly needs it. 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.040 You use whatever violence is necessary to end the threat to protect 00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:07.920 your family. 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:08.880 That is love. 00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:10.640 It is love for your family. 00:35:10.640 --> 00:35:15.520 And the man who breaks into your home intending harm and violence, 00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:18.880 he's receiving the due penalty for his sin. 00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:25.040 And your love for him as a neighbor momentarily is far less 00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:29.200 important scripturally than your love for your family to whom you have 00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:35.040 an absolute duty to protect as their caretaker and on God's behalf. 00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:35.200 You 00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:37.360 mean you don't just point a camera phone at him and hope 00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:37.840 for the 00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:38.480 best? 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:42.640 Yeah, you're you're not gonna convict a man's conscience by by pointing 00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:44.160 out to him that he's sinning. 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:48.400 you you restrain and you end the sin and then you can 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:50.880 go and visit him in jail if he survives and you can 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:51.680 tell him about Jesus. 00:35:54.160 --> 00:35:54.480 Yeah, 00:35:54.560 --> 00:35:58.160 no. Um just to clarify for the the Lutheran audience, for those 00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:00.880 who are paying close attention, we do of course hold that the 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.920 Imago Dei in Man is lost through original sin. 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.320 When we speak of man being made in the image of God, 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.440 that is man is originally made, it is restored, of course, in 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.400 Christ. That's a a subject for another time. 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.640 But when it comes to those who would set 00:36:18.160 --> 00:36:22.160 the various attributes of God against each other, or particularly in this 00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:26.640 case, those who would set love against truth or truth against love, 00:36:26.640 --> 00:36:29.920 it is important to remember the transcendentals, we have spoken of them 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.400 before, beauty, goodness, and truth being the three core ones, there is 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:39.920 never a time where these can be set against each other. 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:45.040 If you are advocating that any of the attributes of God can 00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:48.960 be set against the other attributes of God, you are advocating for 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.320 a split or division in the Godhead, and that simply cannot be. 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.080 That is rank heresy. 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:59.840 And so speaking the truth is not an act of hatred. 00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.680 Now I'm not saying that you couldn't possibly use the truth to 00:37:03.680 --> 00:37:05.360 hate someone. 00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:09.440 It is possible to use things that are good in themselves for 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:13.040 evil. It is possible to turn the good things of God toward 00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:17.440 wicked ends, and that happens all the time, that is what Satan 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:19.120 frequently does. 00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:23.440 Sex is a good gift from God, when it is in marriage 00:37:23.600 --> 00:37:26.720 between a man and his wife. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:32.240 good in itself, but in the case of fornication or homosexuality or 00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:36.160 rape, It is being put toward an evil, a wicked end. 00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:39.040 And so it is possible, as I said, to use that which 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.880 is good, that which is from God, even things that are good 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.280 in themselves, like truth, to use them, to attempt to work toward 00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:48.720 a wicked end. 00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:53.440 However, when those things in and of themselves are being set against 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:58.000 each other, that is an indication that you are dealing with someone 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.680 who is wicked, who has malice in his heart, who is attempting 00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:03.840 to cause you and others harm. 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:07.040 And so if someone tells you that you cannot speak the truth 00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:10.800 because that would be hateful, that person is a wicked liar and 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.720 needs to be rebuked. 00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:15.040 Yes, that is a way to go about it. 00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:18.080 There are good ways to speak the truth, there are bad ways 00:38:18.080 --> 00:38:19.600 to speak the truth. 00:38:19.600 --> 00:38:22.400 But it is important and it is the duty of the Christian 00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:26.320 to speak the truth, because that is actually showing love. 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:30.960 And earlier in this episode I mentioned that 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.080 the word hate, to get back to the topic for today, appears 00:38:36.160 --> 00:38:41.760 throughout scripture, beginning to end, Genesis to Revelation, and so I'd just 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:48.080 like to highlight how early on in Scripture hatred appears, and how 00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.440 near to the end of the scriptures hatred appears. 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.160 We'll start with the end, we'll start with Revelation. 00:38:54.160 --> 00:38:59.040 In Revelation two six, yet this you have, you hate the works 00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:04.720 of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate, that is Christ speaking, commending 00:39:04.720 --> 00:39:09.680 Christians for hating and saying that he himself hates. 00:39:09.680 --> 00:39:11.920 God hates wickedness. 00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:13.680 And that's what he's saying that he hates here. 00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:16.080 He's hating the work of false teachers. 00:39:16.080 --> 00:39:18.000 That is a perfect hatred. 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.000 Just a bit give a bit of context, in in Revelation 2, 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.200 that's one of the letters that Jesus is writing to the seven 00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:29.840 churches. And in that passage, he when he's addressing them, he's kind 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:30.880 of dressing them down. 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:34.160 He's saying, You're you guys are screwing a bunch of stuff up. 00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:37.440 One of the only things that Jesus commends that church for is 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:38.720 their hatred. 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.640 go read Revelation 2. 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:44.480 It's when you read it clearly with these eyes, it's stark that 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:48.160 the thing which God commends of them in the other churches have 00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:50.960 their own strengths and weaknesses, but one of the only things that 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.760 that church is getting right is its hatred. 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:58.000 I think that's a it's a point that cannot be ignored because 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:03.040 this is we're again we're talking about God's nature and God's will. 00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:06.880 And if God is commending a church for its hatred over against 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:11.360 their other failings, we can't ignore that as Christians and we cannot 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.000 say that hatred is always per se evil. 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.200 We must acknowledge that there are times and places when not only 00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:19.760 is it permissible, but it's required. 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.480 And sorry to before I'd stop interrupting you. 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:23.120 No, of course. 00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:26.560 you you made you you highlighted the point how often love and 00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:28.320 truth are set in opposition. 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.320 That's one of the things that's very much a point in in 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.080 Markwart's paper as well. 00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:33.600 We see this all the time. 00:40:33.600 --> 00:40:38.560 The pastors who personally hate Cory and I for the things that 00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:41.760 we say and for the things we say in this podcast. 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.240 They hate us for telling the truth. 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:46.880 They hate us for saying what is in Scripture. 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.520 Just as God promised the righteous would be persecuted by evildoers. 00:40:51.520 --> 00:40:57.440 It's the charge is of lovelessness, but the accusation is never falsehood. 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:01.280 When truth is spoken, the accusation is lovelessness. 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.240 And I think that we gotta be we have to pay extremely 00:41:04.240 --> 00:41:08.400 careful attention when we see this playing out, because again, there's a 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.760 demon named love. 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:13.760 Just as love is part of God's nature, there is a demon 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.600 that is named love that is worshipped by this world. 00:41:17.600 --> 00:41:20.480 It is worshipped by the worst people in this world. 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.760 And when they say do this in the name of love, they're 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.040 wanting you to think that we're they're talking about God when they're 00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:29.600 not, they're talking about something else. 00:41:29.600 --> 00:41:34.080 And if truth is destroyed by love, that is not love that 00:41:34.080 --> 00:41:37.440 comes from God because as Corey said, God cannot be set in 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.040 opposition to himself. 00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:39.200 And 00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:45.920 it's worth emphasizing again, Christ says which I also hate. 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:49.440 He is commending them because they are imitating him because they are 00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.080 hating the things that he hates. 00:41:52.080 --> 00:41:53.760 And again that is perfect hatred. 00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:58.880 And so to switch to Genesis then, the beginning of Scripture. 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:02.240 Well, this is the more important one, that's why I've left it 00:42:02.240 --> 00:42:03.920 for second. 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:09.120 Genesis three fifteen, which of which of course is the Proto Evangelion, 00:42:09.120 --> 00:42:12.720 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your 00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:14.560 offspring and her offspring. 00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:17.840 He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.240 And of course, that word enmity there has the lexical scope of 00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:24.240 hatred. That's what enmity is. 00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:28.560 Enmity is hatred, to give you the dictionary definition. 00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:32.160 Enmity is the quality of being an enemy, the opposite of friendship, 00:42:32.160 --> 00:42:36.000 ill will, hatred, malevolence. 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.520 That is what is spoken of there, and that is the first 00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.040 instance of the gospel in Scripture. 00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:46.400 The first instance of the gospel does not have the word love 00:42:46.560 --> 00:42:49.520 in it, but it has the word hate in it. 00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:52.960 And so you have hate from the beginning of Scripture to the 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:56.000 end of Scripture, and to be very clear we are still saying 00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:01.360 that hate is not God an intrinsically good part of creation. 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.600 Hate is intrinsically good when it is properly directed, because it is 00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:09.600 directed toward that which is evil, but it was not God's original 00:43:09.600 --> 00:43:13.040 intent for hatred to be part of creation because it did not 00:43:13.040 --> 00:43:14.480 need to be part. 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:19.680 It entered into creation through disobedience, through wickedness. 00:43:19.680 --> 00:43:22.880 It of course will be removed in the new heavens and the 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.080 new earth. 00:43:24.080 --> 00:43:28.320 But in so far as we are still in this life, hatred 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.360 is part of the Christian life, and it is a necessary part 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:32.160 of the Christian life. 00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:33.360 It is not an optional part. 00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.920 It is not something that we can set aside that we can 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.480 say, Well, we're Christians, so we only love. 00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:42.400 No. In order to have love in this life, you must also 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:46.080 have hatred, because you must hate that which is evil and love 00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:47.040 that which is good. 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:53.040 I think probably the single best demonstration in scripture of this polarity 00:43:53.040 --> 00:43:55.440 that we so often focus on, you know, we've talked in the 00:43:55.440 --> 00:44:00.240 past about things that are abominations, and we pointed out abomination to 00:44:00.240 --> 00:44:04.400 whom? When we talk about hatred, and particularly perfect hatred, and I'm 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.360 going to give you the the passage where that exact phrase is 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:12.800 used by God to describe what he desires, it's important to understand 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:19.120 when we talk about enemies, there are our enemies and there are 00:44:19.120 --> 00:44:20.080 God's enemies. 00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:22.400 And sometimes they're the same people. 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.520 And so when you look at the passage where Jesus says to 00:44:25.520 --> 00:44:30.240 turn the other cheek, for one thing, the turning of a cheek 00:44:30.240 --> 00:44:33.040 when someone slaps you, if you look at the hand that Jesus 00:44:33.040 --> 00:44:37.040 references, it's the hand that they used to wipe their behinds after 00:44:37.040 --> 00:44:38.560 they did their business. 00:44:38.560 --> 00:44:42.720 So it wasn't an act of violence that Jesus was describing. 00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:45.280 It was a profound personal insult. 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:46.720 It was an attack on ego. 00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:51.280 It was a public humiliation to slap someone with that hand. 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.160 And Jesus was telling them: if someone humiliates you like that, You 00:44:54.160 --> 00:44:56.240 like that, turn the other cheek. 00:44:56.240 --> 00:45:01.440 Don't respond in kind, because that person is acting as your enemy. 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:07.920 In Psalm 139, Jesus references the same sort of hatred that he 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.880 commends in Revelation two. 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.680 David writes O that you would slay the wicked, O God, O 00:45:15.680 --> 00:45:20.160 men of blood depart from me, they speak against you with malicious 00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:23.600 intent. Your enemies take your name in vain. 00:45:23.600 --> 00:45:27.120 Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? 00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:31.360 And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:35.680 I hate them with perfect hatred, I count them my enemies. 00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:39.120 Search me, O God, and know my heart, try me and know 00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:42.640 my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way in me, 00:45:42.640 --> 00:45:45.600 and lead me in the way everlasting. 00:45:45.680 --> 00:45:49.120 Now I included the last couple verses there because at the end 00:45:49.120 --> 00:45:55.200 of Psalm 139, David appeals to God for a clean conscience, which 00:45:55.200 --> 00:46:00.320 eliminates any possibility of doubt that maybe David was describing something sinful, 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.880 which is an accusation that's made in one of the other papers 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.800 that we will link. 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:09.600 When David is describing this, he is describing the opposite polarity of 00:46:09.600 --> 00:46:13.520 enemy. Go read Psalm 139 again for yourself. 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:17.360 it's a beautiful psalm, and you've the first part of it is 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:21.280 actually very often used in pro-life uh contexts, but the end of 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.840 it is about hating God's enemies. 00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:29.200 David is the Psalms are filled with David striving striving against his 00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:32.720 own enemies and crying out to God for mercy and help. 00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:39.440 In Psalm 139, the enemies that David is describing are explicitly enemies 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:40.560 of God. 00:46:40.560 --> 00:46:44.240 Now, as we've said before, of God means something. 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:48.800 Enemy of God doesn't mean the same as enemy of mine. 00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:52.240 There are men who hate me, who hate me for saying the 00:46:52.240 --> 00:46:54.800 things that God says. 00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:59.200 Personally, there are some days when I struggle to respond to that 00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:02.560 in a godly way, both in my heart and what I'd say 00:47:02.560 --> 00:47:06.000 out loud, either here or on the internet. 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.720 But I always in order to try to remain in accord with 00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:14.960 God's will, I focus on what is it they're hating. 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:20.160 Because if a man hates me for saying what God says, it's 00:47:20.160 --> 00:47:22.800 not really even me that he's hating. 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:28.000 As Corey quoted previously, when when people hate us for the sake 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:32.160 of God, it is God that they hate, fundamentally and exclusively. 00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:34.160 We just happen to be the messengers. 00:47:34.160 --> 00:47:37.120 And that was what the the old testament f prophets faced over 00:47:37.120 --> 00:47:38.000 and over again. 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.360 They got they were persecuted, they were murdered, they were chased, and 00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:44.240 the same thing happened to John the Baptist and to Jesus. 00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:48.240 When someone comes and says what God says to people who hate 00:47:48.240 --> 00:47:51.200 God, they're usually hated and killed. 00:47:51.200 --> 00:47:54.480 Occasionally they're listened to, but that is up to God. 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.920 God determines whether or not those who hear his word are going 00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:03.440 to well that's a free will question. 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:05.920 I'm not sure how to to finish that sentence cleanly. 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:11.040 There are times when it's see it's another another episode, yes. 00:48:11.040 --> 00:48:14.960 Yeah. It's the it's when when God acts in this life, what 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:18.080 we need to focus on is that when we are acting in 00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:22.720 accord with what God says and we're hated for it, those aren't 00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:23.520 our enemies. 00:48:23.680 --> 00:48:28.320 So when these pastors, like Don Stein, who is actually recently in 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:32.480 public it with a group of pastors, asked the other pastors to 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.680 pray to God against this podcast. 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:38.480 What do you say to that? 00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:42.960 when God says thou sh that we shouldn't judge, judge not, that's 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.240 what he's talking about. 00:48:44.240 --> 00:48:48.240 Because God alone can do the math on whose prayers he listens 00:48:48.240 --> 00:48:51.680 to. Does he listen to the prayer of the men who are 00:48:51.680 --> 00:48:53.200 serving him faithfully? 00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:55.760 Or does he listen to the prayer of the men who are 00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.480 asking God to strike those men down? 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:01.040 God can sort that out, and so we don't have to worry 00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:01.680 about it. 00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:07.280 So while there is enmity between men, the focus in the Christian 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:12.400 life means needs to be against whom is the hatred directed? 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.720 When it's coming in, if someone hates you for being a Christian, 00:49:16.720 --> 00:49:18.480 scripture says to rejoice. 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.920 You should give thanks when you are hated for his sake. 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.280 That is that is a type of martyrdom. 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:27.280 And we shouldn't 00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:30.480 we shouldn't feel bad about that. 00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.400 It doesn't feel great, but it is something to give thanks to 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:39.040 God for because the alternative is to not say what God says, 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:42.800 and therefore to not be hated by the world that is ruled 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.840 by the prince of this dark age who cloaks himself in the 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:46.880 name of love. 00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:51.600 And so when we as Christians hate God's enemies, hate those who 00:49:51.600 --> 00:49:55.200 hate God, that is obedience to God. 00:49:55.200 --> 00:49:56.320 Full stop. 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.760 There could be no argument. 00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.880 Or you have to reject Psalm 139 and all of the other 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:04.240 passages that you know Cory mentioned hundreds and hundreds of times in 00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:08.800 scripture where it is clearly said that hatred of God's enemies, that 00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.120 hatred of evil, is obedience to God. 00:50:13.120 --> 00:50:18.000 Proverbs 8 says, the fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.960 And one of the mistakes that some pastors make when they're trying 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.000 to thread the needle on this and and make sure that people 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:27.760 don't go too far with their hating, they'll say things like We 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.760 have no enemy but Satan. 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:31.520 Well that's simply not true. 00:50:31.520 --> 00:50:34.880 That that's absolutely contrary to what scripture says. 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.960 We absolutely have enemies. 00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.920 Some of them are just enemies because they don't like us for 00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:40.960 whatever reason. 00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:45.680 There are other enemies who hate us because we're God's children, and 00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:48.800 God's children will be hated by the prince of this world and 00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:52.640 by his own children, because both God and the devil have children, 00:50:52.640 --> 00:50:55.840 and everybody it has one father or the other. 00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:57.920 There's no third option there. 00:50:57.920 --> 00:50:58.240 And 00:50:59.120 --> 00:51:03.600 when we speak of hatred, as we're evaluating it, as we're thinking 00:51:03.600 --> 00:51:06.400 about it, and as I said, like I struggle with this, and 00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:07.520 sometimes I fail. 00:51:07.520 --> 00:51:11.760 Someone directs something at me, and I my first instinct is to 00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.000 shoot right back twice as hard. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:14.320 And 00:51:15.520 --> 00:51:18.720 I I don't always do what God wants me to do. 00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:20.960 But when I look at my own actions and I look at 00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:25.200 the actions in the world, my first concern is not, did that 00:51:25.200 --> 00:51:26.640 person make me feel bad? 00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:27.920 Did he hurt my feelings? 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:29.920 Did he did he say something mean? 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:34.560 My first concern is is my will and are my actions aligned 00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:37.360 with what God commands and desires. 00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:41.200 And if they are, are the other man's actions and his aligned 00:51:41.200 --> 00:51:43.040 with God's will and his desires? 00:51:43.040 --> 00:51:44.800 And then I go from there. 00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:47.200 I think that that's what all of us need to spend more 00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:48.400 time focusing on. 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:50.720 What is God's actual will? 00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:55.200 Because we've been it's all been collapsed into this bumper sticker theology 00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.400 where we've all come to believe, well, God's will is love, right? 00:51:58.400 --> 00:51:59.920 I mean, God's will is love. 00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:04.560 That that's like it's it it's such a trope that it's difficult 00:52:04.560 --> 00:52:08.160 for Christians to push back because we don't have the words because 00:52:08.160 --> 00:52:10.640 the words are not being given to us by our teachers who 00:52:10.640 --> 00:52:14.640 will clearly say someone who is doing evil in the name of 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:17.440 love is a child of Satan. 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:21.680 And the fact that they're cloaking themselves in light is no surprise. 00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:23.120 That's what their father does. 00:52:23.120 --> 00:52:27.200 That's what the Lucifer, the light bringer, the s the demon. 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.800 demon who cloaks himself in light is of course going to be 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.880 appealing because that's how he gets people to be succored. 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.320 It's important as a Christian who has the indwelling of the Holy 00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:42.400 Spirit to listen to God's voice in all things, not just the 00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:45.120 things that make us feel good, and not just the things that 00:52:45.120 --> 00:52:46.720 let us off the hook. 00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:51.760 As I say repeatedly, when I read scripture, I find myself condemned. 00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:52.960 That means it's working. 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:56.800 That means that the Holy Spirit is saying, Yeah, I'm telling you, 00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:59.360 you need to obey God when you do these things. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:02.480 You need to obey me, because it's God speaking. 00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:04.480 We all need to focus on that. 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:10.080 And that will sometimes mean that there is outgoing hatred, not in 00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:14.320 not in a counter battery, not in returning fire, but that there 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:17.120 must be hatred of that which is contrary to God's will. 00:53:17.120 --> 00:53:20.560 And when we are personally involved with it, that's when it becomes 00:53:20.560 --> 00:53:21.840 very difficult because 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:27.120 uh we are naturally fallen and we will naturally go further than 00:53:27.120 --> 00:53:30.320 God permits and do things that God does not condone. 00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:33.840 And that's why it's so important to understand this clearly first in 00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:37.040 our own hearts and minds, so that we're always judging our own 00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:40.800 actions first and then the actions of others by the measuring stick 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:42.480 that God has given us in Scripture. 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:42.960 And 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:47.200 really today the pastors who stand up stand up and condemn hatred 00:53:48.160 --> 00:53:51.520 by and large are acting like fools. 00:53:51.520 --> 00:53:55.440 Because it's just not a problem in our churches these days. 00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:00.080 Now in some of the liberal to use the term in a 00:54:00.080 --> 00:54:05.680 technical sense, denominations, it is very much a problem because they have 00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:09.600 a specific hatred for specific groups for specific reasons. 00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:13.760 We can get into that eventually in another episode, but by and 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:19.360 large, in traditional Christian denominations and churches, hatred just isn't a problem. 00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:20.720 The exact opposite is the problem. 00:54:20.720 --> 00:54:21.760 There's no hatred. 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:26.640 It's all permissiveness and this and this sixties sense of love and 00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:28.320 live and let be. 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:32.400 And so the the pastor is condemning a sin that isn't even 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:36.000 present in his congregation, and that's if he's even condemning it in 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.160 terms that are the terms related to the sin, and not the 00:54:40.160 --> 00:54:44.640 modern misconception, it would be as if a pastor today stood up 00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:47.840 and condemned charioteering. 00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:51.680 Okay, yes, for Christmasdom that was relevant today not so much. 00:54:51.680 --> 00:54:54.000 I don't think very many people are going out to the track 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:57.680 and betting on chariot races very often in our churches anymore. 00:54:57.680 --> 00:55:02.080 And so it's again, pastors are supposed to speak to the congregation 00:55:02.080 --> 00:55:06.880 about the things that apply to the congregation, not some far off 00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:10.560 sin of some other people that is irrelevant to the congregation. 00:55:10.560 --> 00:55:11.680 Is it still sin? 00:55:11.680 --> 00:55:15.200 Yes, but if it's not a problem in your congregation, why are 00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:20.240 you spending time hounding your congregation about something that doesn't apply to 00:55:20.240 --> 00:55:22.640 them at present. 00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:26.160 Now, I also want to turn back to Psalm 139 for a 00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:31.120 moment and focus on that word that is translated as perfect or 00:55:31.120 --> 00:55:33.680 complete, depends on which translation you are reading. 00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:36.640 In the ESV it's complete hatred. 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:40.880 The word there is teleos, and that is of course related to 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:46.320 telos, telos meaning end, so teleology is dealing with the end of 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.680 things or the purpose of things, depending on if you're doing philosophy 00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:51.120 or theology. 00:55:51.120 --> 00:55:55.760 But what that word means is perfect or complete or mature, it 00:55:55.760 --> 00:56:02.080 is a hatred that is properly directed toward a rightful end. 00:56:02.080 --> 00:56:05.200 And that is the whole point that we're making about hatred. 00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:09.440 That is what is being said in that Psalm Psalm one thirty 00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:14.640 nine, a perfect hatred is a hatred that is properly directed toward 00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:16.560 a proper end. 00:56:16.560 --> 00:56:20.160 And in this case it is the hatred of God's enemies, and 00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:25.200 if you hate God's enemies, that is a perfect hatred, because it 00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:30.080 is properly directed toward the enemies of God, and that is a 00:56:30.080 --> 00:56:32.000 proper end for hatred. 00:56:32.240 --> 00:56:32.480 I 00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:35.280 want to give a few verses here just to give some specific 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:41.520 scriptural warrant for when and how hatred is appropriate among believers. 00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:42.240 You mean we're 00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:45.360 we're not going to read just the entirety of the The poetry 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:46.320 or the wisdom literature. 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.040 I guess not all of it, because not Job and Song of 00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:52.720 Solomon, so just the the big chunk, the core in the middle. 00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:55.360 Psalm Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. 00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:56.400 Yeah, exactly. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.960 I w when I was looking it was it was mostly in 00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:04.160 those passages Which is it shouldn't be surprising, but we'll we'll discuss 00:57:04.160 --> 00:57:05.520 what it means in a minute. 00:57:05.520 --> 00:57:10.240 Yes. Psalm ninety seven says O you who love the Lord hate 00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:14.400 evil, he preserves the lives of the saints, he delivers them from 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.160 the hand of the wicked. 00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:19.840 In Psalm eleven it says the Lord tests the righteous, but his 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:24.480 soul hates the wicked, and the one who loves violence. 00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:29.120 In Psalm forty five, you have loved righteousness and hated wickness wickedness. 00:57:29.120 --> 00:57:32.640 Therefore God your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness 00:57:32.720 --> 00:57:34.240 beyond your companions. 00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:36.720 That of course is the verse that was referred to in Hebrews 00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:41.840 earlier. God says in Psalm twenty-six, I hate the assembly of evildoers, 00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:44.160 and I will not sit with the wicked. 00:57:44.160 --> 00:57:47.920 In Psalm thirty-one he says, I hate those who pay regard to 00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:51.520 worthless idols, but I trust in the Lord. 00:57:51.600 --> 00:57:54.400 And this is the longest one that I want to focus on. 00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:57.440 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an 00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:03.040 abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed 00:58:03.040 --> 00:58:08.400 innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste 00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:13.120 to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and 00:58:13.120 --> 00:58:18.080 one who sows discord among brothers that's from Proverbs six. 00:58:18.080 --> 00:58:21.600 Now as we mentioned earlier, truth and lying show up a couple 00:58:21.680 --> 00:58:24.000 times here as things that God hates. 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:27.840 It is not lovelessness that he condemns, although that's condemned elsewhere. 00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:33.840 But here God specifically condemns falsehoods, falsehoods that are slander, falsehoods that 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.240 are simply false on their face. 00:58:36.240 --> 00:58:39.840 And in particular I want to focus on God's hatred of one 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:44.080 who sows discord among brothers, because that was the focus and part 00:58:44.080 --> 00:58:47.600 of the of the uh Marquard uh paper. 00:58:47.600 --> 00:58:50.640 It's a focus of much of what is directed against Corey and 00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:53.840 I for this podcast and for the other things that we say. 00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:57.280 And again, the word brother is there, which means in the church 00:58:57.680 --> 00:58:59.120 among Christians. 00:58:59.120 --> 00:59:02.320 Now, scripture, we'll talk about this in another episode, but 00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:08.400 discord does not simply mean that there's disagreement. 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.320 Or rather, when there is discord among brothers, it means that there 00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:15.600 is falsehood among brothers, first and foremost. 00:59:15.600 --> 00:59:19.600 There can be no dispute among Christians that is not based on 00:59:19.600 --> 00:59:25.920 lies. And so when discord arises, again to big to get back 00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:30.480 to the the mention early on of distinguishing between the fact and 00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:37.120 the feeling that arises from encountering the fact, so often today, when 00:59:37.120 --> 00:59:42.800 there is discord among believers, the finger is pointed by those who 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:47.760 would charge lovelessness against the one who has raised the alarm, against 00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:51.840 the man who has said, wait, stop what you're doing, stop what 00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:52.480 you're saying. 00:59:52.640 --> 00:59:54.800 Scripture says something different. 00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:57.520 Let's get back on the same page as God. 00:59:57.520 --> 01:00:02.800 The man who charges lovelessness is attacking the man who speaks of 01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:09.280 Scripture. And so that when there are discussions of discord among believers, 01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:12.160 again polarity polarity comes into play. 01:00:12.160 --> 01:00:15.120 From whom was the discord introduced? 01:00:15.120 --> 01:00:18.640 Was the discord introduced by the man who pulled the fire alarm? 01:00:18.640 --> 01:00:22.400 Or was the discord introduced by the man who lit the match? 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:25.920 The contention that Cory and I have is that we as the 01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:29.280 stones who cry out, and we as the men who are pulling 01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:33.360 the fire alarm, are pointing out that a fire has already started 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:37.840 among us, and that the discord was started by those who speak 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:39.520 contrary to Scripture. 01:00:39.680 --> 01:00:42.480 Now every man has to figure this out for himself by looking 01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:43.360 to Scripture. 01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:47.680 Who is in agreement with God and who is not. 01:00:47.680 --> 01:00:51.360 Behavior is one thing and feelings are one thing, but the truth 01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.240 is immutable and the truth is knowable. 01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:57.760 As we talked about in the episode on the perspicuity of scripture, 01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:01.600 you can absolutely understand what God is saying about these things. 01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:05.120 It's not a mystery what God wants us to do, and it's 01:01:05.040 --> 01:01:08.320 not a mystery what God declares to us. 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:13.680 And so when men will seek to undermine the church by saying 01:01:13.680 --> 01:01:18.000 things that are confusing, that are false, that lead us further away 01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:22.480 from God says, including leading us further away from being able to 01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:27.680 hate that which is contrary to God's will, they are sowing discord. 01:01:27.680 --> 01:01:30.240 They're sowing the discord that God hates. 01:01:30.240 --> 01:01:34.560 And when the second man speaks, and maybe he shouts, maybe his 01:01:34.560 --> 01:01:38.080 tone of voice is very tense, because a man has just lit 01:01:38.080 --> 01:01:41.280 a fire in the midst of a church and he says, Stop 01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:44.640 what you're doing, this is evil, we must stop it immediately. 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:49.120 That man will immediately be accused of causing discord. 01:01:49.120 --> 01:01:52.480 As Christians, we have to figure out where it's coming from. 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:55.440 Is the man who raises the alarm or is the man who 01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:59.120 spreads the lie the one who is doing the evil? 01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:02.720 It's a question that obviously we know what we think and we 01:02:02.720 --> 01:02:05.280 we act with a clean conscience in these matters. 01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.520 You as observers and you as participants in other places must think 01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:13.360 for yourselves from whom is the discord arising? 01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:16.800 Is it he who speaks contrary to scripture, or is it he 01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.800 who cares enough about pure doctrine that he will fight, even if 01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:25.040 it means fighting someone who on paper is inside the church? 01:02:25.040 --> 01:02:27.680 And this is one of the really tough things about what in 01:02:27.680 --> 01:02:32.640 the church means and what a brother in Christ means because in 01:02:32.640 --> 01:02:36.080 the church means that we are part of the body of Christ, 01:02:36.080 --> 01:02:39.600 and there is nothing imperfect or evil in the body of Christ. 01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.600 Now, obviously, that doesn't exclude sinners because otherwise it would be a 01:02:43.600 --> 01:02:44.400 headless church. 01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:46.160 There'd be nothing in it. 01:02:46.160 --> 01:02:49.680 But it is important to focus on the fact that when men 01:02:49.680 --> 01:02:54.720 are acting in evil ways, they are saying, I am not a 01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:57.760 brother. I am no longer your brother in Christ. 01:02:57.760 --> 01:02:59.520 I am like Adam in the garden. 01:02:59.520 --> 01:03:00.880 I am my own God. 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:04.320 I am serving the God who is named love and not the 01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:08.400 God from whom the love we have been given flows. 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:11.440 Distinguishing between the two is not obvious. 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:14.320 It's not something to fix on a bumper sticker, but the fact 01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:18.320 that we continue to fail to discern these matters clearly is precisely 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:22.720 why our churches continue to decay and our hearts continue to grow 01:03:22.720 --> 01:03:26.000 cold, because we're not listening to God's voice. 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:30.320 We're listening to the age of Aquarius as the tune plays on. 01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:33.760 And the further and further we get from God, the more we 01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:37.040 sound like we're still doing Jesus y stuff, we're still talking about 01:03:37.040 --> 01:03:40.160 love, but it's not the love that comes from God, it's a 01:03:40.160 --> 01:03:41.120 something else entirely. 01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:41.440 So 01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:41.600 you 01:03:41.600 --> 01:03:44.720 went through a few verses there that had to deal with uh 01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:46.880 hatred, and there of course are many of them. 01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:51.360 As mentioned earlier, there are many, many instances of these words in 01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:54.240 scripture. We had pretty much the same list for the Psalter. 01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:56.080 One other one that I had was Psalm five, which of course 01:03:56.320 --> 01:04:00.480 says The boastful shall not stand before your eyes, you hate all 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:05.200 evildoers. And of course that is a prophet saying that God hates 01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:07.440 evil, God hates evildoers. 01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:11.840 That is actually one thing that um some modern pastors and others 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:16.080 like to try to weasel out of hatred by saying, no no, 01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:17.200 God hates sin. 01:04:17.200 --> 01:04:18.640 God doesn't hate the sinner. 01:04:18.640 --> 01:04:23.680 Well, scripture's very clear you hate all evil doers. 01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:25.120 God hates sinners. 01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:28.240 It in fact doesn't really even make sense just to hate sin 01:04:28.560 --> 01:04:32.560 because without sinners there's no sin. 01:04:32.560 --> 01:04:36.160 And so no, it's God hates sin and sinners. 01:04:36.160 --> 01:04:38.720 God hates evil and evildoers. 01:04:38.720 --> 01:04:41.680 You cannot speak of him hating one and not the other. 01:04:41.680 --> 01:04:44.720 That is, to lie about what Scripture says. 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:46.240 But to get back to 01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:51.760 the frequency with which these terms appear, some may have noticed that 01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:55.360 there is a difference in the frequency between the New and the 01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:56.240 Old Testaments. 01:04:56.240 --> 01:04:58.480 It may have been hard to note just when I was going 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:04.720 through very briefly but yes, the words related to hatred do appear 01:05:04.720 --> 01:05:07.760 more frequently in the Old Testament. 01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:10.640 And so of course there are some who will try to make 01:05:10.640 --> 01:05:16.000 something of that, but that's really just bringing up an ancient heresy 01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:19.760 that of course continues to rear its head because the the demon 01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:24.240 responsible for that still around and will still try to subvert the 01:05:24.240 --> 01:05:28.080 church by saying, Is the God of the Old Testament really the 01:05:28.080 --> 01:05:29.120 God of the New Testament? 01:05:29.200 --> 01:05:31.680 The answer, of course, is yes, because God does not change. 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:34.640 One of the papers that we're going to link is one that 01:05:34.640 --> 01:05:39.120 I wrote about two years ago in response to a paper written 01:05:39.120 --> 01:05:44.960 by uh Reverend Doctor Jeff Gibbs, fr retired recently from the St. 01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:47.520 Louis Seminary of the Missouri Synod. 01:05:47.520 --> 01:05:51.120 Uh he wrote a paper on righteous anger, the term that he 01:05:51.120 --> 01:05:52.880 used, basically condemning it. 01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:55.840 And if in effect his argument I was it was like a 01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.360 twenty page paper, but the gist of it was essentially 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:06.080 while technically it might be scriptural to say that something like righteous 01:06:06.080 --> 01:06:08.800 anger might possibly exist. 01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:12.400 Humans are so sinful that we can never possibly get it right, 01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.520 so it's better if we just never have any anger at all. 01:06:15.520 --> 01:06:19.920 Um in effect, he was condemning outright any anger in the hearts 01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:23.040 of any Christians for any reason whatsoever. 01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:27.040 And the principal logical fallacy that he made in 01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.600 that error that was the premise of his paper was that he 01:06:31.600 --> 01:06:35.760 saw anger as strictly an emotional thing. 01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:42.240 That it's it's it's an upwelling of a feeling disconnected from fact 01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:46.640 and without regard to the facts, either the emotion is right or 01:06:46.640 --> 01:06:51.680 wrong. And so when Scripture is speaking of anger and of hatred, 01:06:51.680 --> 01:06:56.080 Gibbs contention was that scripture is only speaking of emotions. 01:06:56.080 --> 01:06:59.680 And the contention that we're making here in this presentation that I 01:06:59.680 --> 01:07:03.440 make in the paper separately is that this isn't about emotion at 01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:05.200 all, at least not principally. 01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:09.840 When God hates sin and God hates the wicked, that is the 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:13.440 evildoers, the men who are wicked. 01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:14.960 That's not emotion. 01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:17.040 That's not not in any human sense. 01:07:17.040 --> 01:07:20.240 And it's not just that God's not human, so he works differently. 01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:25.040 It's that again, that which is evil is contrary to God's nature. 01:07:25.040 --> 01:07:28.960 He hates and abhores that which is contrary to himself, and he 01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:31.760 will destroy it eternally in fire. 01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:34.240 That is his perfect will. 01:07:34.240 --> 01:07:37.200 That's not emotional, that's judgment. 01:07:37.200 --> 01:07:40.880 Now, I mentioned the judge not passage earlier, and I think I 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:44.160 mentioned this before, but it's it's worth reiterating. 01:07:44.160 --> 01:07:47.920 We all know if we've ever watched a courtroom procedure or anything, 01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.760 there are two different kinds of judgment. 01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:53.440 There's the judgment of fact, which is done by the jury, and 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:57.440 there's the judgment of sentence, which is given by the judge. 01:07:57.440 --> 01:08:03.040 When God instructs Christians to judge not, he's referring to the second. 01:08:03.040 --> 01:08:08.080 He is saying that when a man like Don Stein imprecates us 01:08:08.080 --> 01:08:12.880 before the church and says that God must restrain us because we're 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:16.720 evil, only God can figure out how to do the math on 01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:17.680 that mess. 01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:21.840 We as humans don't know what the final disposition of that will 01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:27.440 be. Is Donstein damned because he prayed a damnable prayer and involved 01:08:27.440 --> 01:08:29.840 other pastors in his wickedness? 01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:30.560 I don't know. 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:31.360 I hope not. 01:08:31.360 --> 01:08:34.560 I hope that he'll repent for this ongoing sin. 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:38.880 I cannot judge the final disposition of those acts, but I can 01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:42.640 tell you with an absolute certainty that I judge those acts to 01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:47.040 be wicked on their face, because the lies and the deception and 01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:51.200 the malice that got to the point that those prayers were said 01:08:51.200 --> 01:08:55.120 in public are profoundly and obviously evil. 01:08:55.120 --> 01:08:57.360 They're obviously contrary to God. 01:08:57.360 --> 01:08:58.800 That is wickedness. 01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:02.480 And as a member of the body of Christ, not only am 01:09:02.480 --> 01:09:06.720 I equipped to judge as a jurist whether or not something is 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.760 sinful, I am obligated to do so. 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:12.560 And when it is a public sin, as was in the case 01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:17.440 of Don Stein's sin at this pastoral gathering, that public sin can 01:09:17.440 --> 01:09:19.520 and must be repudiated publicly. 01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:22.880 That's another part of Mark Wart's paper. 01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:27.520 And so when Gibbs talks about anger and wants to make it 01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:31.120 just an emotional thing, it's a trap that's really easy to fall 01:09:31.120 --> 01:09:33.520 into. And I see a lot of people who criticize Corey and 01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.800 I online say we're we're angry about something as though it were 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:38.480 emotional about something. 01:09:38.480 --> 01:09:40.480 Yes, I do sometimes get emotional. 01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:42.160 I don't typically show it on Twitter. 01:09:42.160 --> 01:09:46.080 I mean, if I show displeasure on Twitter, it's usually tactical, it's 01:09:46.080 --> 01:09:47.280 usually for effect. 01:09:47.280 --> 01:09:50.880 Um, it's not that I've lost control and I'm just blustering. 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:56.960 But because we live in a feminized world today, people look at 01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:02.400 the presence of emotion or something that could be described as emotion 01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:04.720 and say, aha, there's the content. 01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:07.440 Those are the facts that are relevant to what's going on here. 01:10:07.440 --> 01:10:11.520 When that's simply not the case, there's truth and there's falsity, and 01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:15.760 that which is measured true should be received by believers and will 01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:17.360 be hated by unbelievers. 01:10:17.360 --> 01:10:19.280 And the opposite of true is true. 01:10:19.280 --> 01:10:22.960 If something is false, if something is slanderous, it will be hated 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:27.040 by Christians because it is contrary to what God says. 01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:30.640 And so is it emotional to say that I hate when there 01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:33.200 are pastors praying evil prayers? 01:10:33.200 --> 01:10:34.400 I don't think so. 01:10:34.400 --> 01:10:36.240 I'm not personally upset about it. 01:10:36.240 --> 01:10:36.560 I'm 01:10:37.440 --> 01:10:40.640 w whatever emotional response I have to that is about the fact 01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:43.760 that our church has fallen so far that we have this sort 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:47.120 of public evil going on and nothing is done about it. 01:10:47.120 --> 01:10:50.000 And it continues to be the case that the evil gets worse 01:10:50.160 --> 01:10:52.960 and the silence gets more deafening as time goes on. 01:10:52.960 --> 01:10:54.080 That upsets me. 01:10:54.080 --> 01:10:56.000 I uh that's like stubbing my toe. 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:59.120 That hurts a lot because I don't know if I'm ever going 01:10:59.120 --> 01:11:02.320 to stop stubbing my toe against this kind of wickedness. 01:11:02.320 --> 01:11:05.680 There doesn't seem to be anyone who's stepping forward to end it. 01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:07.520 So yeah, there's some emotion there. 01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:08.960 But it's still transient. 01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:12.320 There's not there's not something there's that I think well that made 01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:15.840 me upset and therefore I've I've stamped my book that someone made 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:18.000 me mad on such and such a day and I'm never gonna 01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:20.160 forget. I don't care. 01:11:20.160 --> 01:11:23.600 I do care that hateful things to God 01:11:25.360 --> 01:11:27.680 are a threat to souls. 01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:31.520 The reason that Corey and I do this podcast is that these 01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:34.000 lies are a threat to souls. 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:36.880 You know, we did the episode a couple weeks back where we 01:11:36.880 --> 01:11:38.000 talked about um 01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:43.680 disputes and we and we mentioned the blow up over communion within 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:49.760 Lutheranism. And I have seen numerous public and private reports since then 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:54.480 of men who were considering becoming Lutheran or who had been Lutheran, 01:11:54.480 --> 01:11:59.200 who have already ceased to be Lutheran because of what Jordan Cooper 01:11:59.200 --> 01:12:01.120 said online. 01:12:01.120 --> 01:12:05.120 He said things that sounded reformed and people said, Well, that sounds 01:12:05.120 --> 01:12:07.280 reformed. I was already reformed. 01:12:07.280 --> 01:12:08.480 I don't I don't need this crap. 01:12:08.480 --> 01:12:10.080 Why would why would I be Lutheran? 01:12:10.080 --> 01:12:11.040 I already have this. 01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:13.840 There are things I like about Ring being reformed that I don't 01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:15.200 like about being Lutheran. 01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:17.840 I can be exactly what I am over there. 01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:21.360 And Jordan Cooper gives me license to remain reformed because he says 01:12:21.360 --> 01:12:23.120 we believe the same things. 01:12:23.120 --> 01:12:26.240 Now, Jordan will say that he didn't mean to do that, but 01:12:26.240 --> 01:12:28.560 that was the effect of his words. 01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:30.880 That makes me furious. 01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.440 That fills me with hatred. 01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:38.640 Not at the man, so much as at the fact this unmitigated 01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:43.040 evil continues among us, and we can't get our act together to 01:12:43.040 --> 01:12:46.960 speak faithfully about the gifts that God has given us and people 01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:49.840 who are looking simply walk away. 01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:52.400 There will be thousands of people as a result of that blow 01:12:52.560 --> 01:12:56.080 up who will either leave the church, the Lutheran church, or they'll 01:12:56.080 --> 01:12:57.760 leave the church entirely and lose their faith. 01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:01.600 They're people who will go to hell because of what Jordan Cooper 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:03.200 said, and not for the first time. 01:13:03.200 --> 01:13:05.920 This has been his pattern for years. 01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:09.760 That is a righteous object of perfect hatred. 01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:11.120 That is pure evil. 01:13:11.120 --> 01:13:13.840 And the fact that someone can do it with a collar and 01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:17.760 someone can do it while saying they're Lutheran and saying they're confessional 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.640 doesn't change the facts. 01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:25.760 So as a Christian, I have to separate the emotion that these 01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:25.920 things 01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:27.600 cause 01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:28.960 from 01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:34.080 the righteous assessment as a juror of good and evil. 01:13:34.080 --> 01:13:36.960 We are told that we will judge angels, and there will be 01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:40.320 judgment that Christians will pass on creation. 01:13:40.320 --> 01:13:43.040 That is what God has assigned to us, and by the indwelling 01:13:43.040 --> 01:13:46.960 of the Holy Spirit, we're capable of it imperfectly today. 01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:50.160 I can tell whether or not something is good or evil, not 01:13:50.160 --> 01:13:53.840 perfectly, not an absolutely every case, but generally I can do a 01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.840 pretty darn good job, because the Holy Squirt Spirit and Scripture has 01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:02.000 equipped me and should equip every believer to do that. 01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:06.320 And when the world tells us, love, love, you need to love, 01:14:06.320 --> 01:14:08.880 there needs to be more love, use your indoor voice. 01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:10.000 Don't get upset. 01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:11.040 You can't hate. 01:14:11.040 --> 01:14:13.600 You can't hate when something bad is happening. 01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:15.680 That is the voice of Satan. 01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:19.040 Because the more that these things happen and the more that they're 01:14:19.040 --> 01:14:23.520 received or covered up in the name of love, the further we 01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:26.000 get from what God commands of us. 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:31.040 When Jesus commended that that wishy-washy crappy church in Revelation two, and 01:14:31.040 --> 01:14:33.120 he said the only thing they had going for 'em was their 01:14:33.120 --> 01:14:37.200 hatred, which he shares, he would not give us the same commendation. 01:14:37.200 --> 01:14:39.040 We have no hatred in our hearts today. 01:14:39.040 --> 01:14:43.120 We have no perfect hatred for anything except racism, incidentally. 01:14:43.120 --> 01:14:46.640 If you're racist, if you do w if you do a racism, 01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:50.080 that will inspire the full wrath of our churches today. 01:14:50.080 --> 01:14:53.840 There's virtually nothing else that will get anyone's dander up. 01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:58.240 That's a conversation for for a near uh episode coming up soon. 01:14:58.240 --> 01:15:00.800 But think about that. 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:02.400 You will see perfect hatred. 01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:05.520 Well, you it's not perfect, but you will see hatred among our 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:10.000 pastors and among the laity against certain things. 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:14.400 And the things that they're attacking are things that are not even 01:15:14.400 --> 01:15:16.640 sins. They're things that are not scriptural. 01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:18.160 They're things that are not from God. 01:15:18.160 --> 01:15:20.800 And that is the only place that you'll see hatred. 01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:22.480 That's not a coincidence. 01:15:22.480 --> 01:15:26.640 It's not a coincidence that there is no hatred of false teaching. 01:15:27.120 --> 01:15:30.640 there's only hatred of the men who would say, Hey, I think 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:32.080 this is false teaching. 01:15:32.080 --> 01:15:33.680 That's not a coincidence. 01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:37.360 That is achieving an end that is contrary to God's will and 01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:40.800 that is something that as Christians we must hate. 01:15:40.880 --> 01:15:41.120 I 01:15:41.120 --> 01:15:45.120 generally have the the same response you do when it comes to 01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:48.080 the various pastors and detractors online 01:15:49.200 --> 01:15:52.640 a little more of the Germanic phlegmatic disposition. 01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:54.720 I personally just don't care. 01:15:54.720 --> 01:15:58.560 It doesn't elicit an emotional response from me in any way, shape, 01:15:58.560 --> 01:15:59.280 or form. 01:15:59.280 --> 01:16:03.360 Except I would agree with you, when it comes to the fact 01:16:03.360 --> 01:16:08.800 that this is actively harming other souls, nothing these men say affects 01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:10.480 me in any way. 01:16:10.480 --> 01:16:13.600 So, for my own sake, I don't care. 01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:17.200 There are others who are more annoyed by it on my behalf, 01:16:17.200 --> 01:16:21.840 and thank you for that, but in my case, there's not going 01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:23.280 to be an emotional response. 01:16:23.280 --> 01:16:26.000 So that accusation just falls entirely flat. 01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:26.960 It's nonsense. 01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:30.000 Of course it's still a violation of the eighth commandment on their 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:34.560 part, but I don't have personal enemies like that because it's silly 01:16:34.640 --> 01:16:36.640 and I don't see a point. 01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.880 The entire point of why we're doing this, the entire purpose is 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:45.280 because there are men out there who are teaching falsely, who are 01:16:45.280 --> 01:16:50.400 harming souls, who are driving particularly young men out of the churches. 01:16:50.400 --> 01:16:55.200 They are actively harmful to Christ Church. 01:16:55.200 --> 01:16:59.120 And someone has to stand up and speak against them. 01:16:59.120 --> 01:17:03.200 And since we've brought up the issue of private versus public sin, 01:17:03.200 --> 01:17:06.080 I think this is a great time to read To read paragraph 01:17:06.080 --> 01:17:08.720 two hundred and eighty four from the large catechism. 01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:12.880 It's part one dealing with the eighth commandment. 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:16.960 All this has been said regarding secret sins, but where the sin 01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:20.960 is quite public, so that the judge and everybody know it, you 01:17:20.960 --> 01:17:24.800 can without any sin avoid him and let him go, because he 01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:30.000 has brought himself into disgrace, and you may also publicly testify concerning 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:33.280 him, for when a matter is public in the light of day, 01:17:33.280 --> 01:17:37.680 there can be no slandering or false judging or testifying, as when 01:17:37.680 --> 01:17:41.280 we now reprove the Pope with his doctrine, which is publicly set 01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:44.000 forth in books and proclaimed in all the world. 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:48.880 For where the sin is public, the reproof also must be public, 01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:52.640 that everyone may learn to guard against it. 01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:56.080 And that is exactly what we are dealing with. 01:17:56.080 --> 01:17:59.600 Because nothing we have said on any episode so far, nothing we 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:03.680 will say, has dealt with private matters. 01:18:03.680 --> 01:18:09.840 These are false teachers and wolves masquerading as pastors, who are spreading 01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:10.560 their filth 01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:15.360 online, who are spreading it on social media, who are spreading it 01:18:15.360 --> 01:18:20.880 on YouTube, who are teaching people falsely, who are driving people out 01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:25.280 of the church, who are harming souls, who are leading men straight 01:18:25.280 --> 01:18:27.840 into hell, and all of it is public. 01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:30.880 And so the rebuke must be public. 01:18:30.880 --> 01:18:32.800 It is a matter of hatred. 01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:34.800 It is a matter of perfect hatred. 01:18:34.800 --> 01:18:40.720 It is a matter of not impassioned hatred, not emotional hatred, but 01:18:40.880 --> 01:18:44.160 a cold in the technical term, the technical sense of the term 01:18:44.320 --> 01:18:49.040 hatred. It is a hatred of the things that stand against God 01:18:49.600 --> 01:18:52.400 That cause harm to his sheep. 01:18:52.400 --> 01:18:55.760 It is a hatred of that which is evil and wicked, which 01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:58.880 is to say it is love for that which is good and 01:18:58.880 --> 01:19:01.840 right. It is a love for the sheep, it is a love 01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:03.200 for Christ Church. 01:19:03.200 --> 01:19:06.640 Because when you act out of hatred for the evil, you are 01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:09.760 acting out of love for the good, and vice versa. 01:19:10.080 --> 01:19:15.600 And it's important to reiterate that anything that a pastor, that an 01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:17.360 ordained minister of the word 01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:19.200 says 01:19:20.480 --> 01:19:24.720 pastors don't get to have private theological opinions. 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:26.960 That is absolutely disqualified. 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:31.680 By virtue of their office as a pastor, whatever a man who 01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:37.600 is called and ordained thinks about God's Word is de facto public. 01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.880 Every thought in his head, and certainly every word that he's ever 01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:45.760 said to anyone with regard to scripture, with regard to doctrine, is 01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:49.760 a public matter because when a man with a collar speaks, it 01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:51.120 binds consciences. 01:19:51.120 --> 01:19:55.120 We've said on numerous episodes this is just a podcast. 01:19:55.120 --> 01:19:56.800 We're here, we're teaching. 01:19:56.800 --> 01:19:57.840 You can pick it up. 01:19:57.840 --> 01:19:58.960 You can shut it down. 01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:00.320 We don't know your names. 01:20:00.320 --> 01:20:02.800 You're not accountable to us in any way. 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:06.160 We're po we're accountable to God for what we say, but we 01:20:06.160 --> 01:20:07.840 hold no authority over you. 01:20:08.080 --> 01:20:11.280 Anything that you hear us say that you might agree with, it's 01:20:11.280 --> 01:20:14.240 only because the Holy Spirit has convicted you of that. 01:20:14.240 --> 01:20:17.520 Because the arguments that we make are arguments from Scripture. 01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:21.200 We do not exercise any authority on our own. 01:20:21.200 --> 01:20:23.360 This is not true of pastors. 01:20:23.360 --> 01:20:27.520 Any pastor, whether regardless of denomination, if he stands up and says, 01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:31.120 I'm a pastor, let we let me tell you what God says. 01:20:31.120 --> 01:20:35.600 He is speaking in the stead and by the command of God. 01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:39.600 Or he's speaking in the stead and contrary to the command of 01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:43.280 God. And these men who speak falsely are lucky that they are 01:20:43.280 --> 01:20:44.480 not struck dead. 01:20:44.480 --> 01:20:48.480 It is if if they're blessed and they're going to convert and 01:20:48.480 --> 01:20:51.760 become Christians again, it will be a blessing that their lives continue 01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:55.840 from that day forward, that they may return to the faith and 01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:57.440 be forgiven. 01:20:57.440 --> 01:21:00.640 If it were not the case that these men will not repent, 01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:05.040 that they will continue to take these high-handed sins, this slander and 01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:08.560 this evil that they feel that are their most proud moments, if 01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:11.360 they're going to take those to judgment day, it would be better 01:21:11.360 --> 01:21:14.480 for them when they're burning in hell if God were to strike 01:21:14.480 --> 01:21:15.600 them dead today. 01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.240 I know that sounds like a horrible thing to say, but 01:21:19.120 --> 01:21:23.840 strictly speaking, that is the most merciful thing that could happen. 01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:26.080 God will judge how that may happens. 01:21:26.080 --> 01:21:28.400 God determines the hour of each of our deaths. 01:21:28.400 --> 01:21:29.520 It's none of my business. 01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:33.520 Well, and that is also just straight scriptural, because Christ says of 01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:35.840 Judas it would have been better for him had he not been 01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:36.320 born. 01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:40.800 So that's not just something you infer from scripture. 01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:44.000 That is something that is a literal quote from Christ. 01:21:44.400 --> 01:21:49.680 Yeah. And so we spend uh more time than I wish that 01:21:49.680 --> 01:21:50.160 we would. 01:21:50.160 --> 01:21:52.480 I I I I don't want this to be a podcast complaining 01:21:52.480 --> 01:21:53.760 about pastors. 01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:57.600 But the whole reason we're talking about perfect hatred is that there 01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:01.040 are very few pastors that are who are speaking about it correctly. 01:22:01.040 --> 01:22:04.880 There are a great many pastors who accuse us of hatred, of 01:22:04.880 --> 01:22:08.800 evil hatred, of hatred that comes from Satan, that say that we 01:22:08.800 --> 01:22:13.120 work for Satan by telling you these things, that this podcast is 01:22:13.120 --> 01:22:18.320 from Satan, and they're praying to their God to destroy us. 01:22:18.320 --> 01:22:20.160 That's between them and their maker. 01:22:20.160 --> 01:22:21.520 I'm not a party to that. 01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:24.640 If we're hated for saying what God says, I thank God for 01:22:24.640 --> 01:22:25.760 that martyrdom. 01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:30.560 I and it shames me to say that because I don't deserve 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:35.120 martyrdom. If I were ever to be faced with being killed for 01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:38.560 being a Christian, I would beg them, not for my life, that 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:40.480 they would kill me for something else. 01:22:40.480 --> 01:22:43.760 Because I do not deserve to stand in the courts of those 01:22:43.760 --> 01:22:45.760 who have died for the faith. 01:22:45.760 --> 01:22:48.560 However, it's not up to us. 01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:51.200 We say what God gives us to say, and we say it 01:22:51.200 --> 01:22:52.560 to whoever will listen. 01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:55.200 And the manner in which that is received is between each listener 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:58.160 and the Holy Spirit. 01:22:58.160 --> 01:23:02.080 The reason for discussing all of these forgotten doctrines in things like 01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:06.160 hatred is because Satan is doing an end run about around the 01:23:06.160 --> 01:23:10.000 entire church today The things that we're discussing are the things that 01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:11.680 no one else is discussing. 01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:15.600 So it's frequently going to be upsetting to people or confusing to 01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:19.040 hear our episodes because we're talking about things you probably haven't heard 01:23:19.040 --> 01:23:22.080 before. And that should rightly get your hackles up. 01:23:22.080 --> 01:23:25.200 It should make you nervous to hear somebody talking about theology in 01:23:25.200 --> 01:23:26.560 a way you've never heard. 01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:29.440 That's a that's a huge red flag. 01:23:29.440 --> 01:23:33.280 The question is whether what we're saying is anything new. 01:23:33.280 --> 01:23:36.880 And the simple fact is that everything we're saying is ancient. 01:23:36.880 --> 01:23:39.920 This is not new theology or a new doctrines that we just 01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:42.560 came up with because we were mad online. 01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:45.120 We look at scripture and we look at the history of the 01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:47.760 church and the history of believers, and this is all we see 01:23:48.320 --> 01:23:51.840 until the last few centuries when all of these things came under 01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:56.000 attack. And each of these episodes is a different moving part of 01:23:56.000 --> 01:24:00.640 Satan's attack against the church and our efforts as individual men, as 01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:06.720 laymen, to try to rally whatever faithful men remain to look and 01:24:06.720 --> 01:24:09.920 to see clearly what it is that's going on in the church 01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:12.720 and in the world and to address it faithfully. 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:16.640 And there will be days when addressing it faithfully requires that we 01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:18.240 hate with perfect hatred. 01:24:18.240 --> 01:24:21.360 And if we have not thought about what that means, how it 01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:24.400 works, what we can do, and what we cannot do before that 01:24:24.400 --> 01:24:28.160 day, we will not be equipped to obey God on the day 01:24:28.160 --> 01:24:32.720 when our perfect hatred is required of us as obedience to God. 01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:39.840 Amen.